strange-video card performance answer?

[crvm 0]

Ok so I JUST TRIED this, maybe thought a few FPS faster, what happened BLEW ME AWAY! I have a lowly GF 2 MX, I can't think of to many cards that are lower except a TnT2 lol, I went from 4-5 FPS in spot view to 18-20! This is at 1024x768 32 bit and FPS locked at 20. I am running Nvidia 45.23s. WOW...[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith [h4]P M D G 7 3 7 NG[/h4]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/mineimage.jpg [h3] Realism on the horizon [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

[Guest Bob Z]

BilboAs mentioned in other posts also, the card description has no relevance except for display purposes. ie: the drop down list at the top of the FS9 Settings/Hardware page.I'm pretty sure that how it works is FS9 picks up the relevant info from the system registry ie: vendor/device/dll name/card name and then uses vendor/device/dll in any combination to identify any special overrides for that card/driver in the display.cfg. In at least one case they use Global User Id (GUID) for the Diamond Stealth 2.It plugs the card name (if new) into fs9.cfg to be used in the settings/hardware display.You can see all these mentioned values if you:1. click the Start button on the Task Bar2. click Run3. key in MSINFO323. click OK4. open up Components (click the X)5. open up Display (click the X)vendor/device VEN_ DEV_ under device ID.installed driversversiondescriptionThis is what I believe FS9 uses to get the proper entry in the display.cfgnVidia has only one driver per OS which handles all cards. nvidia calls it Unified Driver Architecture or UDA on their site, so there can also be, and is, a catchall entry for nvidia/XP in display.cfg which has only the dll name (nv4_disp.dll for XP). This entry does not contain the vendor/device info.They use a kind of backward progression to find entries for any special parameter overrides which a particular version of the card/driver might need in a particular configuration.The description makes no difference at all to the operation. It is the vendor/device/dll that counts.In my first post I was close, but in fact had it backwards. FS9 does not use the dll name in display.cfg to access the driver (which is what I first thought) but uses the entries in display.cfg to apply any necessary overrides.In short, I think the display.cfg is correct. Now, if someone knew what these parameters in the display.cfg entries do?

[Geofa 108]

I think that was somewhat my original question-put a little better! :-)This sounds logical and from what I can figure via my first post a different set of parameters from the display.cfg must be loading-and it must be loading something which helps my card run a little better-what I don't know.I have tried using different parameters with different results-one caused a reduction in clarity-another slower performance than what I had. For some reason-whatever I stumbled on seems to do better with no reduction that I can detect.What I am overiding from the display.cfg right now I am not sure-but as mentioned-my sliders now do something-before they did nothing.My performance increase is from this-now I can get the exact performance I want by adjusting the sliders-before nothing really changed.My original question was that there were no parameters listed for my particular card-and that is what puzzled me. It appears to me like you just described-that fs9.cfg detects your card-and then applies some overides from the display.cfg. So if your card is not listed in the display.cfg-what is happening-and with what I tried/stumbled what is happening?That is the question to me?http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Guest waltch]

Exactely the same here...I also have a GF3 64 MB videocard (Elsa) with the latest drivers (45.23) but on WinXP Home Edition.After changing the fs9.cfg as described I also had to reset the resolution to 1024x738x32 and now I have two entries in my fs9.cfg:1)DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA Drivers on Win2K/XPMode=1280x1024x32TextureAGP=0PanelAsTexture=0TriLinear=1and further down this one:2)DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce3.0Mode=1280x1024x32After this I had a slight improvement in frames (maybe 3-5 fps), but the simulation is suddenly much smoother. Stutters (looking out of the side windows) are gone and I am sure this is not my imagination.So this thread (and this "Fix") is really strange. A fix that theoretically does not do anything, is practically helping many people to get better performance and/or graphics.My conclusion: If this is really the case, there must go something wrong when FS2004 is installed on certain systems and the settings for the video card/drivers are read. I am looking forward to what the video-experts still find out about this and at the same time wondering, what Microsoft would have to say about this?Walter

[Guest]

I'm a bit scepticle when doing these 'quick-fixes'. But this is amazing. I have an increase of 7-9FPS, just by changing a line in the .cfg!! This is weired, but great!!!! Geofa, thanks for sharing your great find!! :)

[Johan_Dees 84]

Also try this for better and more stable fps:in the fs9.cfg:TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=1024 (change from 512 to 1024 or 2048)Much smoother. This is an trick what worked in fs2002 also.Johan[A HREF=http://www.phoenix-simulation.co.uk]Phoenix Simulation Software[/A]-----http://www.people.zeelandnet.nl/johdUnofficial PSS Website

[Guest emergency_pants]

Nice one Geof.I haven't got much to add, but I thought an extra post on this thread was needed. I don't think it's quite long enough. ;)I'll definitely be trying this one out tonight!It's my guess that this improvement comes from the fact that NVidia cards use a universal driver, which is optimised for all cards. So, by referencing the drivers directly (instead of specifically the hardware) there is an improvement with some systems.Does this take the 'longest thread' record for AVSim yet, or do we need some more input?Cheers all,Simon.

[Donstim 109]

"It's my guess that this improvement comes from the fact that NVidia cards use a universal driver, which is optimised for all cards. So, by referencing the drivers directly (instead of specifically the hardware) there is an improvement with some systems."You are not "referencing the drivers directly" by making this change. As Russel pointed out, you are changing the display device line to something unrecognizable by FS 2004. It responds by resetting the display options to the defaults and changes your unrecognizable entry back to the display adapter in your computer. You would get exactly the same effect by changing the display adapter line to "DISPLAY.Device.I want more FPS."But if you all think it works, by all means go for it. I'm sure you're getting plenty of laughs out of the folks in Redmond.Don S.

[shermank 173]

I'm drooling with envy, here. Has anyone figured a work around for W98? I'm having a new computer built, and just told my computer guy last week that I would keep W98 instead of upgrading to XP because some of my older apps, i.e. Quicken 2000 and Office 95 will not work with XP.Now, I am having second thoughts...spending $100+ for XP, $30 for a new Quicken and a couple of hundred or so more for a new Word program that will work with XP. PLus, of course $800+ for the new iron.This proves it! I am nuts!...all for the sake of a $55 game...geez, I gotta get a life.....:-)Sherm

[Guest Bob Z]

You have the GeForce4 4200 TI I believe. Since there is no specific entry in display.cfg for this card's VEN_ DEV_, FS9 would search farther and get a hit on the "NVIDIA Drivers on Win2K/XP" entry which has only the [nv4_disp.dll] as the key. So unless I screwed up my original display.cfg (which I saved) the two subentries are disable=1, which I believe disables AGP. This would be for drivers before the revision number. I am sure that yours would get a hit on the second one. The driver revision entry MinDriverRev=5.13.011241. I do not know what the disable=2 means.Let's look at how my GeForce2 would operate.GeForce2 MX 400The relevant values which are in my registry and displayed with MSINFO32 are Ven_10DE (nvidia), DEV_0110 (GeForce2 MX 400) and Installed Drivers nv4_disp.dll.There is one entry in display.cfg that is labeled "GeForce2 MX on 9X".This key reads as[000010DE:00000110:nvdd32.dll]000010DE being the VEN_00000110 being the DEV_nvdd32.dll being the Installed Driver (9X/ME I think, but not sure as I haven't downloaded and checked the nvidia ME driver folder).There is also the entry I mentioned previously that your card would get a hit on:[nv4_disp.dll]Notice that the VEN_ and DEV_ values from my registry match in the first entry but the Installed Driver value does not. FS9 would not get a match on that entry, but it would get a match on the second entry [nv4_disp.dll] which is my installed driver.So the GeForce4 and GeForce2 running on XP use the same entry. GeForce2 on 9X/ME would use a different entry.That is what I meant by a kind of backward progression.Actually, my use of the terms first and second is just for illustrative purposes. In display.cfg the [nv4_disp.dll] is above the [000010DE:00000110:nvdd32.dll] entry, but placement in display.cfg makes no difference.By the way, would you care to trade your card for mine.Actually, mine is running satisfactorily as this is my first aviation sim and I'm doing more reading than flying at this point and I suppose I can possibly wait for the next generation card. I have some real concerns about the heat that I hear is generated by the ATI and FX DDR cards. I don't know if they can continue on that road without addressing the heat problem somehow. At PCWORLD some reviewer nicknamed the FX9700 (I think) "the lawnmower" because of the fan noise. I hear that the 9800 is quieter.Do you have any explanation for the Land/Water sliders? I can't make heads or tails of how they should be set or what they do and there's only a one line description for each in the Learning Center.

[brucek 38]

Hi Sherm,Quicken 2000 does work with XP, I have that at home.Not sure about Office, mine is Office 2002.Bruce.

[shermank 173]

thanks bruce, I'll factor that in..sherm

[Guest clasamilasa]

Folks,I have tried to understand this a bit better and did the following:Deleted fs9.cfg and removed display.cfg from the FS9 root directory. Then started FS9. Saved the resulting new fs9.cfg as "no_display.cfg".Removed fs9.cfg again and put display.cfg back into FS9 root directoy. Started FS9 and saved resulting fs9.cfg as "with_display.cfg" Compared both text files in MSWord: Absolutely no difference in entries.Next, I put "disable=1" into the display.cfg file under the ATI Radeon genric section at the end after the last entry. Same pocedure to rebuilt fs9.cfg. Comparison shows a great number of differnt settings (all reflecting lower graphic settings). Can't copy and past the result here because changes do not show up.Then put "disable=2" instead of "disable=1". Comparison did not reveal any difference to fs9_with_display.cfg. So I still don't know what that "disable=2" setting does.If anyone is interested to take a look at the different cfg files, let me know and I'll mail them.Card used is ATI 9500 pro with Omega that make it look like a 9800 to the system. Identifier string in XP is 4144.Michael

[Guest emergency_pants]

>"It's my guess that this improvement comes from the fact that>NVidia cards use a universal driver, which is optimised for>all cards. So, by referencing the drivers directly (instead of>specifically the hardware) there is an improvement with some>systems.">>You are not "referencing the drivers directly" by making this>change. As Russel pointed out, you are changing the display>device line to something unrecognizable by FS 2004. It>responds by resetting the display options to the defaults and>changes your unrecognizable entry back to the display adapter>in your computer. You would get exactly the same effect by>changing the display adapter line to "DISPLAY.Device.I want>more FPS.">>But if you all think it works, by all means go for it. I'm>sure you're getting plenty of laughs out of the folks in>Redmond.>>Don S.Oh... ok then. Thank you for correcting my extreme imbecility.

[Guest]

Geof,1st of all, thanx for a great post. Kept us all busy during last couple of days ! Serious: i'm happy for you and anyone that has a better SIM experience after the tweak.But i also had my doubts, referring to commentary lines. Don't want to repeat other posts (Thanx Russel ! Great one), so i'll come to the point:Geof, i never saw anyone ask you the obvious Q: Do you have an extra display.device section in your FS9 ??? Please check that for us. If you do, please tell us whats in it.Also, try to rename the display.cfg file and start FS9. On my system, everything starts up and acts normal. I Surely don't want to ruin this great (and sometimes very amusing) thread, but i suspect your system will run normally too.Also i added the mysterious "disable=x" lines to my FS9.cfg under the display.device section (you can, all lines in display.cfg can also be applied directly to fs9.cfg. They're just internal commands for FS.What i found: with disable=1 AND disable=2 i get an error at FS9 startup saying invalid driver/hardware detected, and i can choose for running FS in software-3d mode (you sure don't want to do that !) or updating my drivers. Only with disable=0 everything runs normal.I am absolutely no video expert, just curious and (by nature) a bit sceptic. Please Geof and others that reported these great results, give us all some feedback on the above asked questions.Oh, i almost forgot the obvious: On my system, the tweak had no effect at all. But y'all figured that out by now, didn't you ? ;-)Thanx and enjoy your simming ! Cas