Microsoft Flight Webisode #3

[fly_like_an_eagle 10]

"all the next GEN engines use Directx 9"USE does not imply USEing and actually exploiting to the maximum level all the latest features that DirectX is capable of. The directX API includes a set of gazillions of graphics functions of which only so many got USEd and applied. And if you actually turned DX10 preview ON in FSX, you run into all kinds of display issues. DX10 and 11 make even better use of the latest graphics and CPU hardware, that just didn't exist 5-6 years ago when FSX was developed."you are full of it"yes, full of interest in seeing the latest pc technology gets applied to the next version of FSX.

[_michal 5]

I know taxi lights are not dynamic lights. You've said you haven't seen dynamic lights in FSX, they are there, but for other purposes.We've already know Flight will have completely new lighting solution. Now we have to wait and see if there are dynamic point and spotlights available to 3rd party devs. Patience :)

[dmaher 0]

As Empeck says, it’s not a matter of whether the lights are dynamic or not.FS has had dynamic lights for ages.It’s a matter of dynamic ColorByVertex vs. per-pixel…lighting. That’s the technology that is creeping into games.BTW, as you’d expect, per-pixel is not lightMapping - a static lighting method FS uses most of the time.As processing power increases per-pixel lighting can be used in larger and more complex environments.The sacrifice is frame rate. I have no idea if FS (the worst case for lighting) has the overhead to practically make use of this.The ocean is a shader issue…maybe call it an engine; but it’s also misleading to use jargon like that.The biggest influence on the quality of the ocean is resolution.Obviously the more resources you set aside for rendering the ocean the better it will look.It’s not rocket science to make a good ocean shader (just visit siggraph).The issue is what resources do you allot to the ocean…what else does the game have to do?For what it’s worth…I suspect Flight will have an excellent ocean shader.It’s valuable to look at WingsOfPrey and Outerra.Point out what’s working well…things we’d like to see. That’s constructive.But we can't assume we could add all the other FS systems to these products and still have a workable game.Also don’t assume FS isn’t capable of these effects...often they just won’t fit into the performance budget.The efficiency of the engine is just one of a dozen factors that influence the performance budget.In the big picture it’s not even the most important factor.My point is not that FSX (an old game at this point) doesn’t have lot’s of room for improvement…it does.I think about it this way, users gave MS a mandate to increase performance and the indication seem to be MS is making this a priority.

[fly_like_an_eagle 10]

"Point out what’s working well…things we’d like to see. That’s constructive."thats what all my posts were about. absolutely agree. thank you.

[Guest veeray]

DX10 and 11 make even better use of the latest graphics and CPU hardware, that just didn't exist 5-6 years ago when FSX was developed."you are full of it"yes, full of interest in seeing the latest pc technology gets applied to the next version of FSX.

Actually all this technology existed many years ago... I think your first mistake is thinking that MS invented DirectX.. They didn't they developed an SDK for the hardware layer. It's actually ATI/Nvidia that make the advances not Microsoft. Or did you not notice that Nvidia didn't have a DX11 card for quite sometime after the Windows 7 launch.

[n4gix 4,970]

Actually all this technology existed many years ago... I think your first mistake is thinking that MS invented DirectX.. They didn't they developed an SDK for the hardware layer. It's actually ATI/Nvidia that make the advances not Microsoft. Or did you not notice that Nvidia didn't have a DX11 card for quite sometime after the Windows 7 launch.

That is absolutely incorrect. MS "invented" Direct X. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectXThe only involvement from nVidia was in a joint API develolpment for the original XBox and XBox360 hardware.

In a console-specific version, DirectX was used as a basis for Microsoft's Xbox and Xbox 360 console API. The API was developed jointly between Microsoft and Nvidia, who developed the custom graphics hardware used by the original Xbox.

[stonelance 136]

The only involvement from nVidia was in a joint API develolpment for the original XBox and XBox360 hardware.

I don't think this is 100% accurate either. I'm pretty sure there is some coordination between nVidia, ATI\AMD and other IHVs and the Microsoft DirectX team to plan what should go into the future API to accommodate future hardware features.

[Glynn 405]

I think your first mistake is thinking that MS invented DirectX.. They didn't they developed an SDK for the hardware layer.

Actually they bought a small UK software company (RenderMorphics) that had a product that became Direct3D which became part of DirectX 2.That was in 1995 only two years after Nvidia were started, Nvidia had no meaningful graphics hardware until 2000 when they were lucky enough to buy the intellectual assets of 3dfxThat Team including Steve lacey (ex ACES)went on to work on the later DirectX releases.

[fly_like_an_eagle 10]

it didn't really matter to me who actually invented what, it was more a rhetorical play on words. complex technology is often an evolutionary work with several layers and contributions by several different companies. Just like APPLE didn't "invent" the APPLE user interface in their first Macintosh, they also built on other existing layers. what I did want to say is: since Microsoft has developed DirectX and owns the copyright and sources, they could and should have made better use of it in FSX than they actually did. Instead they mislead the public into believing that DX10 was required for great stunning graphics effects in FSX, which as we know now, was total BS. All just to lure us into the VISTA desert.But thanks to Microsoft's DirectX setting the defacto standard, there is now only one major graphics API left in the game market. I don't even want to think of the chaos had Rendermorphics, 3dfx's "GLIDE" and many other now "defunct" API's survived - somewhat. The game market and graphics cards power would never have grown at the same pace.Now they have a 2nd chance with FLIGHT. If it turns out still to be no major breakthrough, there is always xplane. And yes before we get into the next debate, xplane does not use DirectX and yes, you can cross all the channels in the world and fly from Japan nonstop to anywhere you like in xplane. 2011 will be the most interesting year since 2006 for fans of GA flight simulators, with 2 new versions of the only 2 remaining GA simulators that "survived" the erosion of the flight sim market. both will provide major improvements. time will tell if xplane can close the gap by finally attracting more 3rd party developers, or any at all for that matter. Austin Meyers ignored the importance of 3rd party developers way too long, though the writing was clearly on the wall and he is now paying a hefty price of virtually no 3rd party support. that's more than any supposedly more realistic flight model and what have you, can ever compensate for.Our Microsoft in Redmond, give us this day our directx11-feature packed FLIGHT.you shall lead us not again into temptation, but deliver us from evil frame rates. on earth as it is in heaven.

[Guest veeray]

So who invented OpenGL.. you know the Free public version of Direct3D...? the API that hosts the graphics card outside of the MS world. The API that the hardware is also guarenteed to work with? The API that was used for Quake?

[dmaher 0]

What did ACES actually say about DX10 Preview?I think I keep hearing what people wish ACES had said...but not the message ACES actually gave.Making a preview available of next gen tech was a bad idea....they should have sat on it ;)

[Avirtualpilot 2]

But anyone noticed the micro freezing during the video???I hope they are only due to recoprding and not inside the game!!!!

[HughesMDflyer4 470]

But anyone noticed the micro freezing during the video??? hope they are only due to recoprding and not inside the game!!!!

It's silverlight

[dtrjones 356]

But anyone noticed the micro freezing during the video???I hope they are only due to recoprding and not inside the game!!!!

Yes I did notice the micro freezing, I couldn't tell you even if that was down to the performance of the SIM, I really don't think that is anything to worry about this far from release. It's not an answer but the hardware tech is also likely to change a fair bit (with ATI and NVidia gearing up for some big releases just round the corner) before the release of Flight anyway. I and don't think Flight will be released with anything other than a solid DirectX 11 implementation and decent performance.

[dtrjones 356]

what I did want to say is: since Microsoft has developed DirectX and owns the copyright and sources, they could and should have made better use of it in FSX than they actually did. Instead they mislead the public into believing that DX10 was required for great stunning graphics effects in FSX, which as we know now, was total BS. All just to lure us into the VISTA desert.But thanks to Microsoft's DirectX setting the defacto standard, there is now only one major graphics API left in the game market. I don't even want to think of the chaos had Rendermorphics, 3dfx's "GLIDE" and many other now "defunct" API's survived - somewhat. The game market and graphics cards power would never have grown at the same pace.Now they have a 2nd chance with FLIGHT. If it turns out still to be no major breakthrough, there is always xplane. And yes before we get into the next debate, xplane does not use DirectX and yes, you can cross all the channels in the world and fly from Japan nonstop to anywhere you like in xplane. 2011 will be the most interesting year since 2006 for fans of GA flight simulators, with 2 new versions of the only 2 remaining GA simulators that "survived" the erosion of the flight sim market. both will provide major improvements. time will tell if xplane can close the gap by finally attracting more 3rd party developers, or any at all for that matter. Austin Meyers ignored the importance of 3rd party developers way too long, though the writing was clearly on the wall and he is now paying a hefty price of virtually no 3rd party support. that's more than any supposedly more realistic flight model and what have you, can ever compensate for.Our Microsoft in Redmond, give us this day our directx11-feature packed FLIGHT.you shall lead us not again into temptation, but deliver us from evil frame rates. on earth as it is in heaven.

I think you've made a lot of reasonable points! I've always thought ACES seamed behind the curve when it has come to the graphics rendering and just felt that they were updating a pig. It feels different with Flight though, I think the performance benefits the team are addressing plus a different perspective and vision a (mostly) new team brings will make Flight more attractive, immersive and performant. It also can't go on unnoticed the good work Austin Meyers and his team are producing with X-Plane 10 to Microsoft either and so a little competition could bring out the best in both developers. I'm not sure I entirely agree with you on X-Planes 3PD support. I've been on the Aerosoft forums and talked to some other developers. X-Plane commercially simply doesn't have the same clout that the Microsoft product can boast and therefore has always been less viable to the commercial markets. If a developers has to put there eggs in one basket its really a no brainer. But the products produced for X-Plane have been reasonable so the tools and capabilities are there, but you need some garentee of a return as well.Cheers,Dave.