Question on KORD STAR & Approach

[Sherm 1]

First, many thanks to PMDG and the PMDG community for a fantastic add-on. The PMDG 737NGX is a product that offers so very much, it will keep me “immersed” for a long time to come. Here is my current question, and I must admit it has little to do with the add-on itself, it is just that the depth of the capabilities is pushing me to learn and explore more, and that raises some issues. I’ve flown the tutorial a few times with success. Now I’m attempting a cross-country from Portland, OR (KPDX) to Boston (KBOS) with stops in Denver (KDEN) and Chicago (KORD). I’m planning the KDEN to KORD leg now. I’m using FSBuild to create a plan and have figured out how to load it into the FMC. My question is about the STAR into ORD. I’m selecting BULLZ1 as the STAR (based on a real world flight I picked from FlightAware). And, I want to land on RWY 10 at KORD. I found the BULLZ1 chart and am confused about it. It follows waypoints down to KURKK (NW of KORD) and then diverts straight east to LOMEZ, which, if I'm not mistaken, is in the middle of Lake Michigan. A note on the chart says that for “ORD landing east, expect radar vectors … after KRENA”. So, how do I set this on the FMC RTE/LEGS pages?Do I allow the STAR to exist “fully” and simply disengage from LNAV after KRENA?Or, should I modify the route and add my own manual “vector” into the ILS RWY 10 approach (eg: to SYSCO)?Are there better STARs to use for an eastward landing? And for curiosity sake… why does the STAR take you out into the middle of the lake? Is that where a large # of westbound approaches “start”? NOTE: I don’t use the ATC at all…. Many thanks, Sherm

[Thunderbird8 1]

I think the lake is probably the missed approach hold point. If a STAR requires vectors after a certain point and you are not using ATC (such as VATSIM or IVAO) you'll have to vector yourself. That isn't hard but you will be off LNAV and VNAV sooner. Get into the habit of flying your aircraft without too much reliance on LNAV and VNAV, it's good airmanship. Why not try it on one of the online networks, they are usually very good.

[raymar 972]

FIX, Direct. Ray

[Tabs 2,790]

Use HDG SEL after KRENA and "vector" yourself onto the approach. I'd do a 180 heading or something like that for a while and then something like 120 for getting onto the approach at a 30 degree angle as you get closer to it. You can do a direct to one of the approach fixes with an INTC CRS in 6R of the runway heading (093) - that'll produce a line to infinity along the runway centerline that you can intercept in LNAV if you want as well.

[falcon999 24]

In the real world when I fly in this area and KORD is using east flow, ATC instructions from Krena will vary depending on traffic density. Typically most arrival traffic from the NE are vectored to 27L and 27R (KORD new config). If traffic is light ATC will vector from Krena using a modified base directly to localizer intercept.

[Sherm 1]

All, Thanks for all the feedback & advise. I flew this last night and it worked perfectly. I used FSBuild to modify the "plan", removing the waypoints past KRENA and adding a few to get me lined up with the RWY10 loc. Exported to the NGX and loaded it up in the FMC. Worked great. Plus, I learned more about the FSBuild tool. Quite powerful....

[Guest tonyf38]

Go to liveatc and take a listen to KORD approach control and Chicago center, will give you an idea how they get traffic in there...

[Thunderbird8 1]

Well done on getting it sorted however I would still urge you to not be too reliant on LNAV and VNAV, particularly if you ever plan to use 'real' ATC, such as VATSIM. Good luck and happy flying!

[Guest tonyf38]

Well done on getting it sorted however I would still urge you to not be too reliant on LNAV and VNAV, particularly if you ever plan to use 'real' ATC, such as VATSIM. Good luck and happy flying!

Absolutely correct sir!!

[Thunderbird8 1]

On this, I think one of the best ways to learn the basics of staying 'ahead' of the aeroplane in the sim is to try a few manual auto-pilot MCP descents from the cruise, just to watch how the aircraft behaves. You can follow the STAR and vector yourself the way that ATC probably would.

[Guest tonyf38]

In busy areas, it's usually heading select and lvl change or v/s mode for altitude changes.. When atc is vectoring you for LOC capture, LNAV goes out the window..

[Thunderbird8 1]

Indeed. In my experience you rarely get to fly the full STAR.

[Guest tonyf38]

Yes, it's usually vectors for approach course, last thing you want to be doing is fiddling with the CDU in a high density traffic area.. You can get runway changes last minute, traffic alerts etc.....

[Tabs 2,790]

All, Thanks for all the feedback & advise. I flew this last night and it worked perfectly. I used FSBuild to modify the "plan", removing the waypoints past KRENA and adding a few to get me lined up with the RWY10 loc. Exported to the NGX and loaded it up in the FMC. Worked great. Plus, I learned more about the FSBuild tool. Quite powerful....

Works, but just be aware that's not really accurate to how you'd do it in real life - the pilots are just going to go to the manual MCP modes, they're not going to program custom fixes...

[Guest tonyf38]

also, VNAV is a pain in the rear on approach.. Probably why only very few pilots use it..