How MS should have done this.

[Arwen 289]

Correction: you're seeing the decline of Microsoft Flight Simulator. There are other developers who continue to wholeheartedly support the hardcore sim enthusiasts. Namely Laminar Research. The developers of FlightGear also deserve a mention.

So Jane's, Microprose, and Terminal Reality are still cranking out great sims? Even Sierra Pro Pilot '99 came with 6 aircraft. My older brother had all those sims, and he use to let me fly them, if I pestered him long enough. I still have his original copy of Jane's Longbow (and MSFS4 on a floppy disk somewhere, and MFS9, and MSFS2002, and Gunship, and Apache/Havoc, and Falcon 4, and Enemy Engaged). I didn't say that all hope was lost, or that flightsims were history. But I'm pretty sure that I've witnessed a rather large decline.I own X-Plane 9. And I tried the X-plane 10 demo (which I also had great hopes for). X-Plane 10 is still no FSX in my opinion . . . and I was hoping for FSXI, not FSX-lite. Edited January 5, 2012 by Arwen

[Guest jahman]

Well, Flight could tank, them MS could release Flight2 minus the golden donuts plus airliners and world scenery. Would not be hard at all to do (most of the hard work (new secenery engine, lighting model, improved aerodynamics, Shader 3, improved use of Multi-GPU, Multi-CPU) has alreadt been coded.Plus Flight could find a new market in hospital delivery rooms where birthing mothers could supplement LaMaze breathing with a session of spearing golden donuts in Flight with the Icon A5 and have their minds go blank out of sheer boredom without the need for any anesthesia whatsoever.Cheers,- jahman.

Edited January 5, 2012 by jahman

[Mountain Man 142]

So Jane's, Microprose, and Terminal Reality are still cranking out great sims? Even Sierra Pro Pilot '99 came with 6 aircraft. My older brother had all those sims, and he use to let me fly them, if I pestered him long enough.

They've been dead and gone for at least a decade, so I'm not sure why you're bringing them up now.

I own X-Plane 9. And I tried the X-plane 10 demo (which I also had great hopes for). X-Plane 10 is still no FSX in my opinion . . . and I was hoping for FSXI, not FSX-lite.

Now is really not the time for this "us against them" nonsense. There is room for improvement in X-Plane 10, but it's getting better and better with every release.The point is that you can uselessly whine and complain about Microsoft abandoning the hardcore enthusiast market, or you can throw your support behind a developer who still supports us with tremendous dedication and enthusiasm. While you're making up your mind, I'll be over here having a blast with X-Plane 10, knowing that the future of the flight simulation hobby is in good hands. Feel free to join us. :(

[Arwen 289]

They've been dead and gone for at least a decade, so I'm not sure why you're bringing them up now.

Because, in my opinion, flightsims have been in a slow decline for more than a decade.

Now is really not the time for this "us against them" nonsense. There is room for improvement in X-Plane 10, but it's getting better and better with every release.The point is that you can uselessly whine and complain about Microsoft abandoning the hardcore enthusiast market, or you can throw your support behind a developer who still supports us with tremendous dedication and enthusiasm. While you're making up your mind, I'll be over here having a blast with X-Plane 10, knowing that the future of the flight simulation hobby is in good hands. Feel free to join us. :(

Look, I bought X-Plane 9, so I've already "supported" X-Plane. I was hoping that X-Plane 10 would live up to its pre-release hype, but it hasn't. I'm not paying $79 for X-Plane 10 until it has decent AI, a working flight planner, and more than just a "plausible game world," with broken roads, bridges to nowhere, flat trees that look like cardboard cutouts, and square lakes and shorelines. The lights and clouds are a big improvement, but the rest still needs a LOT of work. I own FSX, and I bought a bunch of 3rd party addons, so why should I purchase a sim that is a step backwards from what I'm currently using.I'm not whining . . . I'm expressing my disappointment. What I initially hoped would be a real sim that could perhaps bring some new life into this genre, is going to be nothing more than another button mashing arcade game. All I've done in this thread is given my opinion (which, by the way, is just as valid as yours). Edited January 5, 2012 by Arwen

[woweezowee 10]

Look, I bought X-Plane 9, so I've already "supported" X-Plane. I was hoping that X-Plane would live up to its pre-release hype, but it hasn't. I'm not paying $79 for X-Plane 10 until it has decent AI, a working flight planner, and more than just a "plausible game world," with broken roads, bridges to nowhere, flat trees that look like cardboard cutouts, and square lakes and shorelines.

Perfectly reasonable. Even X-Planers are not perfectly happy with all of version 10 as it is now. But there is no reason to panic. Just dare a second view in half a year or year. Until then, enjoy what you have. I have not uninstalled XP9 for XP10 just yet, too.

[GHarrall 494]

They've been dead and gone for at least a decade, so I'm not sure why you're bringing them up now.Now is really not the time for this "us against them" nonsense. There is room for improvement in X-Plane 10, but it's getting better and better with every release.The point is that you can uselessly whine and complain about Microsoft abandoning the hardcore enthusiast market, or you can throw your support behind a developer who still supports us with tremendous dedication and enthusiasm. While you're making up your mind, I'll be over here having a blast with X-Plane 10, knowing that the future of the flight simulation hobby is in good hands. Feel free to join us. :(

Im putting my faith in Lockheed Martin and P3D.At least I know current addon devs are already on board and some of my purchases are already being ported over. No brainer really..........

[WotanUK 289]

I feel i can comment as a "serious simmer". I see some good news in this, even if it turns out to be a arcade game how many people are going to get into simming because of this? Finding M$ Flight might mean that they find DCS A10, DCS Black Shark, FSX with PMDG planes.Something i think everybody has missed, it's free, why not download and then make comments. I agree that shunning 3rd party developers isn't good news, but perhaps if it takes off this may change, if more people get into simming it might be worth the additional expense involved for PMDG and others to develop in line with Microsoft. Seriously people i understand the concerns but i honestly think things are looking better than i hoped.

[mikea76 184]

Plus Flight could find a new market in hospital delivery rooms where birthing mothers could supplement LaMaze breathing with a session of spearing golden donuts in Flight with the Icon A5 and have their minds go blank out of sheer boredom without the need for any anesthesia whatsoever.Cheers,- jahman.

Thats a very good idea. We all know nobody is going to buy this trash when they find out they can't blow stuff up and there is no damage modeling on crashes, so they may need find a alternative use for MS pilotwings Edited January 5, 2012 by mikea76

[nehuge6348 22]

Hopefully most of the people that sign up for beta are hardcore simmers, and leave their feedback which will include us wanting a simulation, and the whole world free flight.

[Mountain Man 142]

Im putting my faith in Lockheed Martin and P3D.At least I know current addon devs are already on board and some of my purchases are already being ported over. No brainer really..........

$120/yr is awfully expensive for FSX 2.0.

[mikea76 184]

$120/yr is awfully expensive for FSX 2.0.

How many hours a year of entertainment do you get out of it? I get much more that 120 a year worth out of FSI think it's kind of unfair to compare a FS to a normal game, because with the FS your using it as a base platform to build off of, where the traditional videogame you may play for a month or so get bored and discard it. Edited January 5, 2012 by mikea76

[Mountain Man 142]

Let's put that another way:$120/yr is awfully expensive for FSX 2.0 when there are considerably less expensive alternatives.

[mabe54 17]

I don't fall for the idea that just because Flight failed my expectations I will need now to run and replace it with something else or worst yet, throw my support with my hard earned dollars to other vendors. It doesn't work like that. I tried XP long ago and didn't like the concept at all. For what I can see and heard nothing has changed. I agree, $120/yr is way off the top for a lovable hobby.MAB

[dtrjones 356]

I still have his original copy of Jane's Longbow (and MSFS4 on a floppy disk somewhere, and MFS9, and MSFS2002, and Gunship, and Apache/Havoc, and Falcon 4, and Enemy Engaged). I didn't say that all hope was lost, or that flightsims were history. But I'm pretty sure that I've witnessed a rather large decline.

Hehehe, my personal favourite back in the day was F19 Stealth Fighter, low and slow, avoid the radars and land safely haha... Thanks for those memories.

[dtrjones 356]

You know it looks bad now for the hardcore simmer and I have to agree with the reaction, but I can't say it's all doom and gloom. Not sure why people think Flight is dumbed down because there are gaming elements and may be an easier way to fly if you choose it? How can you say Flight won't be a challenge to hard core simmers do you have proof? No. It also looks a hel'ov a lot of fun too!The real issue is of course the FS legacy of a solid platform with 3rd party content appears to have ended which would be a terrible shame if this was to be true.However with the model Microsoft have chosen I think progress could turn out as follows (speculation!)...1. Microsoft releases Flight for free (Hawaii big island) with an aim to make it as accessible as possible.2. Microsoft releases remaining Hawaii islands and additional GA planes and missions.3. Microsoft releases patch 1 for Flight4. Microsoft releases small Jets, Americas Scenery Pack and three cities, Seatle, Chicago and NY + missions.5. Microsoft releases patch 2 for Flight6. Microsoft releases Europe Scenery Pack, cites London and Madrid and additional planes and missions.7. Microsoft releases patch 3 for Flight and long awaited Flight SDKThe bottom line is Microsoft wants to see how this will all develop - I don't think they know what will happen, content will be produced to support the demand but I think Microsoft will be flexible. Also with the store aspect I can see Microsoft releases regular patches and content some of which will be free and eventually I see an SDK.There's still no reason why the Flight platform can't be changed if user demand is as such and I can see this progressing much the same way as maybe Rise of Flight developes. I really do think this will inevitably be released to the wider developement community but Microsoft may just want to play its cards closer to its chest for now.Remember Microsoft goals in PC Pilot was to make 1. Flight accessible but also 2. To future revisions more practical to implement which is why I strongly believe Microsoft will revise Flight and therefore you'll probably not see a Flight 2 for some while. It's tough on the hardcore simmers out there, but be patient and lets see how the dust settles.Cheers,Dave.