Maximum climb and descent rate during normal operations

[Buzz313th 0]

No you're right, XPax only looks at the rate of climb/descent and the default values are the ones in my original post.Thanks for your tips using using different vertical modes and inputting wind conditions, I actaully know about this but it's easy to be a bit "lazy" being a virtual FS pilot but I'll give it a try and see how much difference it makes.

Yeah, let us know. I'm not a FXPax user, but your results may help others with the same questions.JB

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I find it irritating that FSPax looks at the climb/descent rate...Chances are, somebody here has flown in a plane and descended at a higher rate than you'd think and never noticed it. Why? People only feel acceleration. As long as the pitch down was slow enough, you'd never know.

[Fabo 213]

I suggest you disable those arbitrary limits completely. It seems that the programmers of PAX softwares failed to account for the fact that people dont feels V/S, which is a common misconception.Actually also a common misconception in first look, somewhat similar, is when you look at motion sims, like this racing sim

- people expect the sim just to turn, and to bank or pitch just as much as a car does (which is little) - but in reality this feels really as it should.

[kabekew 0]

Strictly in Vnav Climb mode, the only way I'm aware of, would be by a derate or another Thrust climb mode

I suspect every real-world airline must mandate their B738 pilots fly in the derated CLB-2 mode (on the N1 limit page) because that's the only way I've found to get this PMDG aircraft fly more like they do in real life (around 1800-2000 fpm in the climb). And it makes sense, it probably results in less maintenance cost.Go to flightaware.com, click on Live Flight Tracking/Browse by Aircraft Type, and you can see a whole bunch of real-world B738 vertical climb and descent profiles.Interesting how they're all around 2000fpm and not the 4000-6000fpm the PMDG VNAV will do by default. So I think you should always select CLB-2 to be more realistic.

[Spin737 102]

Real Tubeliner drivers will often transition from different phases of flight through the use of Handflying, Vertical Speed Mode, or disengaging autothrottle, to smooth things out and make the flight more comfortable for the passengers

Again, the real 73 drivers will often disengage AT just before TOD.

I've never seen that done. Some will use LVL CHG or V/S instead of VNAV, but we don't just switch off A/T.

The higher the rate of sustained climb/descent, the more "Ear Popping" the passengers experience durring pressurisation/de-pressurisation. It can be minimized by manually controlling the rate of pressurisation if the auto mode isn't doing it's job as well as it should

I've never seen that done either.

[kabekew 0]

I've never seen that done. Some will use LVL CHG or V/S instead of VNAV, but we don't just switch off A/T.I've never seen that done either.

Yea but you're mixing real-world with FSX here. With PMDG and FSX you get lots of unrealistic oscillations, and violent pitch changes because of the unrealistic upper wind changes and the limited CPU time the PMDG FMC has to control things. So in FSX land, yes it's best to turn autothrottle and especially VNAV mode off frequently to keep the flight smooth.

[Spin737 102]

Yea but you're mixing real-world with FSX here. With PMDG and FSX you get lots of unrealistic oscillations, and violent pitch changes because of the unrealistic upper wind changes and the limited CPU time the PMDG FMC has to control things. So in FSX land, yes it's best to turn autothrottle and especially VNAV mode off frequently to keep the flight smooth.

I'm not mixing anything. The OP said "Real Tubeliner" pilots often do x,y, and z. My remarks are regarding RW.But, I agree simland =/= real world.

[Buzz313th 0]

I've never seen that done. Some will use LVL CHG or V/S instead of VNAV, but we don't just switch off A/T.I've never seen that done either.

I have seen it done more times than not while jumpseating all over the states. Intervening, or overiding the AT, whether it be by disengaging or manually moving the levers while still engaged is a common practice. I can't speak from experience as I don't have any time in anything larger than a 70 seat Regional Jet, but like I said, I have seen it practiced in many different type airliners and from 3 of the largest US carriers and this goes from the early 73's to the late 74's.Contrary to popular belief, most pilots prefer to handfly durring the transitional and critical portions of the flight. It usually results in a smoother and more enjoyable experience for the passengers. And isn't that what it's all about..... Making sure your company gets loyal passengers?So I take it your Flying 73's for a part 121 carrier?Regarding the Cabin rate......So you have never heard of or seen a flight crew manualy overide the cabin climb or descent rate for abnormal conditions? Your kidding right?JB Edited January 27, 2012 by Buzz313th

[Buzz313th 0]

I'm not mixing anything. The OP said "Real Tubeliner" pilots often do x,y, and z. My remarks are regarding RW.But, I agree simland =/= real world.

Matt, I'm not refering to simland. I refering to real world experience.But nevertheless, I do appreciate your oppinion. :) Edited January 27, 2012 by Buzz313th

[Spin737 102]

So you have never heard of or seen a flight crew manualy overide the cabin climb or descent rate for abnormal conditions? Your kidding right?

For abnormals, yes. (Auto and Stby fail, rapid D) I'm not going to go to MANUAL unless a fault occurs. The 737 pressurization works pretty well and I've never heard someone say, "This isn't smooth enough, let's go to manual."

[Buzz313th 0]

For abnormals, yes. (Auto and Stby fail, rapid D) I'm not going to go to MANUAL unless a fault occurs. The 737 pressurization works pretty well and I've never heard someone say, "This isn't smooth enough, let's go to manual."

So a baby in coach sitting on it's moms lap is crying hystarically. The Cabin Crew has now informed you five times that the baby can't equalize. Your still climbing and you have more than enough room in differential cabin pressure. What do you do?JB Edited January 27, 2012 by Buzz313th

[Buzz313th 0]

Cummon Spin.I'm sure you have seen or heard of this circumstance. It's actually pretty common, relatively speaking.And if you haven't experienced this, you might be hard pressed to find the answer on google.JB

[Spin737 102]

Ask the FAs to give him some gum, the passengers nearby earplugs and me some more coffee. Black. And maybe slow the V/S.15 years of 121 and I haven't had this yet.

[Buzz313th 0]

Well your lucky, I guess. I have seen it many times and I have a little less than half the time 121 than you do. Not to mention I don't even fly Commercialy anymore.If the gum, coffee, earplugs and the other voodoo doesn't work. Then you might burst the poor kids eardrums.Not a good decision IMHO, especially from a PIC.But we are still freinds, right?:)JB

Edited January 27, 2012 by Buzz313th

[JoeDiamond 67]

Ask the FAs to give him some gum, the passengers nearby earplugs and me some more coffee. Black. And maybe slow the V/S.15 years of 121 and I haven't had this yet.

20 years and I've never heard this one.