Flight Planning - Confused!

[MDF86 123]

Hello all

 

I've recently upgraded to FSX, and in FS9 my flight planning was non existent.

 

All I did was enter a start and end airport in FS9, and use the default ATC to guide me through a flight, culminating in an ILS approach into my airport.

 

Now that I have FSX and am upgrading to more serious payware aircraft etc, I would like to learn more about more "serious" flight planning.

 

I have purchased FSBuild, however the whole flight planning process just confuses me!

 

All I want to do is choose a route, depart the airport via a SID, and do an ILS landing at the destination airport via a STAR.

 

I am familiar with operating an FMC of a 737/757 from my FS9 days, and have a vague knowledge of the purpose of SIDS and STARS.

 

If anyone can talk me through their flight planning "routine" or share tips/resources then I'd be very grateful.

 

PS - I don't mind whether or not I use the ATC at this point in time.

 

Regards

Martin

[Wynthorpe 51]

Hello Martin,

 

I can highly recommend you join VATSIM and get some help with the guys from there, The live ATC makes a massive difference and they will help you through all steps especially SID's / STAR's

 

Simon

[Ben Johnson 3]

Hi Martin,

 

Here are 3 sites that I search for routes -

 

US flights - http://flightaware.com/statistics/ifr-route/

 

For flights in the rest of the world - http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/ or http://www.vatroute.net/index.php

 

FSBuild is very good and flexible. You can use any of it's stored routes, create your own (either manually or copy & pasted from the above sites), generate and save it and then load the FSBuild flight plan into FSX.

 

These are my basic steps and I'm sure others will add what they do. Welcome to FSX.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

[MDF86 123]

Thanks Both.

 

So say I use FS Build, how do I know which SID and STAR to select in the flight planning process?

 

Here is what I would do:

 

Say I plan a flight from Bristol (EGGD) to Paris CDG (LFPG)...

 

In FS Build, I would choose EGGD and whatever is the active runway. Then choose a SID which correlates to the general direction of flight, yes?

 

How do I then know in advance which runway and STAR to select for the approach to LFPG? Or would you wait and select the STAR in the FMC once the active runway at LFPG is established (via the ATIS??)

 

Sorry this probably sounds really dumb...but flight planning is not something I've ever really considered.

 

But now that I am flying more advanced add ons, I'd like to fly more like real pilots would, i.e. loading a flight plan into an FMC and having the FMC largely flying the route.

 

Thanks

Martin

[NoahBryant 26]

Martin -

 

I admire you're wanting to get more realistic in your flight planning!

 

It looks like you're slowly running into the problem many of us see in that planning a flight in any kind of realistic way is not especially compatible with the built-in FS features. FS doesn't support SID/s and STARs at all. For that you will need to buy something like Radar Contact or start using VATSIM.

 

VATSIM intimidates a lot of people but it's really not that bad at all as long as you're willing to learn.

 

I'll tell you what I do when I'm not flying on VATSIM -

 

I go to rtfinder.asalink.net/free and enter my destination and arrival airports to get the flight plan. Then I look at the weather and decide which runway I'll be departing and pick a SID accordingly. I pick the STAR and arrival runway the same way once I'm nearing the destination. I never even think about touching the default ATC or flight planenr. It's too far from reality to do anything but make me mad, lol.

 

If you give VATSIM a ago, you'll let he controllers tell you the SID/STARs and runways. In the US though, the SID/STAR is normally chosen by the pilot in the planning stafe. In Europe, and most everywhere else, the SID/STAR is chosen by ATC.

[doorstep 46]

Hello all

 

I've recently upgraded to FSX, and in FS9 my flight planning was non existent.

 

All I did was enter a start and end airport in FS9, and use the default ATC to guide me through a flight, culminating in an ILS approach into my airport.

 

Now that I have FSX and am upgrading to more serious payware aircraft etc, I would like to learn more about more "serious" flight planning.

 

I have purchased FSBuild, however the whole flight planning process just confuses me!

 

All I want to do is choose a route, depart the airport via a SID, and do an ILS landing at the destination airport via a STAR.

 

I am familiar with operating an FMC of a 737/757 from my FS9 days, and have a vague knowledge of the purpose of SIDS and STARS.

 

If anyone can talk me through their flight planning "routine" or share tips/resources then I'd be very grateful.

 

PS - I don't mind whether or not I use the ATC at this point in time.

 

Regards

Martin

Join us on JGA Europe and your problems will be over.

[wims80 121]

...

 

How do I then know in advance which runway and STAR to select for the approach to LFPG? Or would you wait and select the STAR in the FMC once the active runway at LFPG is established (via the ATIS??)

...

ATC will assign a STAR to you (if you fly online, the default ATC is not capable of assigning a STAR, or anything else really. Its not very good). If you dont fly online I would recommend not using the built in ATC program, but just fly on your own instead. The following example assumes that you're not using any ATC program. If you do use an ATC program and it's capable of assigning SIDs and STARs you use their assigned procedures rather than my example procedures (of course)

 

Lets say you fly this route from EGGD to LFPG:

 

BADIM DCT BASET UL18 SFD UM605 XIDIL UM605 DPE

 

First you get all the charts for EGGD and LFPG. Then check the ATIS for your departure airport. The ATIS for EGGD is currently reading

 

EGGD 292350Z 26004KT 9999 FEW040 06/05 Q1008

 

Since the winds are 260 degrees at 4 knots you will be departing from runway 27. Your first waypoint is called BADIM, so we look through our charts for a departure procedure called BADIM. There's a departure called BADIM 1X out of EGGD, and it starts at runway 27. Perfect! Choose runway 27 in your FMC and choose the BADIM 1X departure as well. Depart normally, flying the procedure as listed on the charts.

 

During your cruise before you start your descent (or perhaps during your descent) ATC will be assigning you a STAR depending on which runway is in use (that would be in real life or while flying on one of the online networks. The default ATC is not capable of assigning a STAR). Since we're not using ATC we will have to assign one ourselves. We have a look at LFPG's ATIS. Its reading

 

LFPG 300000Z 22009KT CAVOK 07/03 Q1010 NOSIG

 

Since the winds are from 220 degrees we decide to land at the western facing runways. The final fix on our flightplan is called DPE, so we look through our arrival charts for a procedure called DPE. There are several, but only two of them are for the western facing runways, namely DPE 5W and DPE 5P. The chart makes it clear that the DPE 5P procedure is for helicopters and propeller planes only, that leaves us with the DPE 5W as the correct arrival. Select DPE 5W in your FMC.

 

The DPE 5W procedure ends at a waypoint named MOPAR. ATC will generally assign us a transition procedure from MOPAR to the ILS. We look through our charts and we find the transition charts from MOPAR. The transition that takes us from MOPAR to the western facing runways is called MOPAR 1W. Select this transition in your FMC. ATC will have informed you about which runway you will be landing at by this point. Since we dont have ATC we will just assign us a runway ourself. I chose runway 27R, the northernmost runway at LFPG. Since we will be flying the ILS 27R approach you select ILS 27R in your FMC. At this point we tune our nav radios along with the course for the approach. The frequency and course can be derived from your arrival chart. On my charts the frequency for ILS27R is listed as 110.35 and the course is 266 degrees

 

As you can see from your charts the MOPAR 1W transition ends with radar vectors after the PG536 waypoint. Once you reach this point ATC will be vectoring you to intercept the localizer. We dont have ATC so you will have to provide vectors for yourself. It shouldn't be a problem in an airplane that has a navigation display. Intercept the localizer and land the plane. Vacate the runway and taxi to your gate!

 

 

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text

Edited October 30, 2012 by wims80

[metalmike 34]

FSBuild has a couple of tutorials on their site for building your own plans, in case you're ever interested in taking a bigger dive. Planning your own routes is really fun and interesting, to me at least. It took me a little while to grasp, but it pays off.

[ajpongress 467]

I'll share my routine for flights, which keeps evolving to be more realistic as more advanced software and addons are published.

Keep in mind I try to mimic real world operations down to the cup of hot coffee waiting for me next to my office chair (thanks to my GF/armchair stewardess).

 

I pull a route from flightaware.com after inputting a city pair. These routes are actual real world flight plans published by the airline's dispatch office (I figure since I have zero qualifications in dispatching, I'll let the professionals do it for me).

I look at the most recent route for my particular VA (United in this case), and pull up the flight number info page. This tells me the route, planned altitude, and best of all gate assignments since...you know, I crave realism.

I take this info from the latest flight because I fly with real weather turned on, and all dispatch planning is mainly done around current weather conditions.

 

I copy the route and paste it straight into the FSBuild route box. I input the altitude and then press BUILD and export it all to my PMDG routes folder, the FSX default plan folder, and FSINN for use with VATSIM.

The navdata tab of FSBuild gives you all the good stuff. Planned fuel (which takes into account winds aloft that FSBuild pulls from the latest METAR file generated from ActiveSky 2012), an ETE for the trip, destination field elevation, and planned fuel burn for each waypoint including winds aloft data.

 

At this point, you could print that sheet out if you wanted, or copy all the relevant data in a flight notebook, or leave FSBuild up on a secondary pc/laptop (I run it on my laptop).

Once in FSX, I just pull up the flight plan using the PMDG NGX CDU in the COROUTES line, and everything is injected for review. I just go waypoint by waypoint and cross reference them against my SID/STAR charts (mostly for the crossing altitude restrictions) on my laptop and then execute the whole thing into the FMC.

 

Last thing is to pull up the plan in FSINN and submit it to the VATSIM server.

Then fly.

[MDF86 123]

Thanks everyone for the tips, suggestions and advice. Plenty to digest!

[cptawsom 19]

So say I use FS Build, how do I know which SID and STAR to select in the flight planning process?

 

Select those that match more in general, the direction you are going/coming to/from, or those that make your climb and especially descent, more feasible, eg if you have mountaineous terrain in the area, or you are flying a heavy and/or you need more time to descend and decelerate.

 

In FS Build, I would choose EGGD and whatever is the active runway.

 

Yes, or rather what should be the active runway -> remember FSX has limitations on enabling cross-wind runways, or runways only for take-off or only for landing.

 

Then choose a SID which correlates to the general direction of flight, yes?

 

Yes. See also my first comment on SID and STAR.

 

How do I then know in advance which runway and STAR to select for the approach to LFPG?

 

You don't. But you can check the destination weather report via your weather engine. Usually the wind won't change much. If it does, you might have a storm in the area, so you have more things to think about, or it is a very light wind (close to nothing), shifting back and forth randomly, and you don't mind landing with a tail wind of 2-3kts.

 

Or would you wait and select the STAR in the FMC once the active runway at LFPG is established (via the ATIS??)

 

That is literally impossible in FSX, because by the time it (FSX) does get informed (injected) with the destination weather, you are around 15nm from the airport.

 

Remember -> FSX at any time is only aware of the weather within a "bubble" of a few nm around your aircraft.

 

You can check again the destination weather report (if you want), just before you start your descent (or at the beginning of it). Then, if necessary, you have all the necessary time (and distance and altitude) to change the SID and/or runway, if needed.

 

But now that I am flying more advanced add ons, I'd like to fly more like real pilots would, i.e. loading a flight plan into an FMC and having the FMC largely flying the route.

 

Bear in mind, that in some cases, FSBuild will deviate you far off the optimal course (a portion of a maximum circle of a sphere), especially if the optimal course would take you above large sea surfaces, polar regions, too far away from air-corridors (why do you need them -> you don't), and if you cross into too many countries' airspace.

 

I can't say that I fly like in the real world, but it gets the job done -> between the last fix of the SID, and the first fix of a STAR, I draw a straight line (a portion of a maximum circle of a sphere), with no intermediate waypoints.

 

 

 

PS: Also bear in mind, that all PMDG planes (747-400X, 737NGX, MD-11X), hang (their FMC, and FSX), and/or you cannot delete or change any waypoint, from flight plans imported from FSBuild, for reasons unknown to me.