Anoxia

[DaryllB25840 1]

Eaglesoft has some nice jets out there and I have the Beechjet400A, the Citation II and the Citation X. These aircraft have pressurization and oxygen systems.I don't know if this has been addressed before but why can't Anoxia be modeled into the sim? CFS 2 and 3 has "red out" and "grey out" so why can't anoxia be modelled? The most recent accident involving this was with the famous golfer, Payne Stewart (?). If the symptoms are left unrecognized it seems the computer screen should turn black and the sim run until fuel exhaustion or until you press CONTROL+ALT+DELETE.ALSO I don't think ATC should let you cruise along at 42000 ft squawking 1200 without attempting to call the unknown aircraft.

[Guest GabrielR]

Nice...How would I explain to my wife that she can not use the computer, because that black screen is a 747 anoxic pilot and that it wil be 14 hours before the airplane runs out of fuel and crash somewhere in the pacific ! LOL

[N400QW 205]

After some thought we could probably simulate the effects that you mention but the question becomes why?If you notice Eaglesoft does not even do damage modeling:-)Our policy is to provide "fun" aircraft and we find nothing "fun" about damaged airplanes or the sad situation that happened with the Payne Stewart tragedy.

[ejoiner 21]

Ron, I see your point, but I think this is a valid feature request. If you offer a working pressurization system then there ought to be some effect from not using it. Same thing as if one runs a tank dry...the engine quits. In this case, the pilot quits! This is a sim, so it is both realistic and somewhat educational to have a slow onset of tunnel vision gray out. Most people would be able to recognize what that is in a sim because of course you dont lose your real faculties. This isnt macabre. This is reality in a virtual sense.Id like to see this feature in the aeroworx kingair B200 and other planes as well. Just my .02. :)Eric

[N400QW 205]

Hi Eric:-)As mentioned our approach is to enjoy "flying" the aircaft without focusing on the deadly aspects of aviationWhile many things may be modeled to increase the sense of reality we steer clear of modeling the more dangerous aspects of aviation such as happened to Payne Stewart.In short,if the stated goal is to reproduce deadly situations in our simulated aircraft y'all will have to purchase that feature from some other developer:-):-)

[DaryllB25840 1]

That's a rather myopic view coming from a group that strives for realism. I'm one of your customers and like your airplanes enough to have 3 of them. This would be analogous to having a diving simulator that doesn't take into consideration that humans can't breath underwater.You seem to think I'm being morbid about flying (possibly because of my example)and this VERY REAL aspect of flying makes it a point to point out that danger. I didn't know the majority of your aircraft buyers were basically kids.Flying (besides space travel) puts the human body under the most extreme conditions that measure that narrow time line between living and dying in seconds. Hey , flying IS dangerous and I don't consider Flight Sim a computer game. In your Citation X manual in big red letters it says "WARNING! the two PAC switches must be "ON" for the aircraft to pressurize!" maybe you should have added...." ...BUT never mind, there is no consequence for not doing it...". If you did't want to portray the onset of the physical symtoms for educational purposes because that is being tooo morbid, why not put a big red rectangle in the windshield at 12000 ft and let the pilot figure out for himself what he forgot to do. The pressurization system is nothing more than "dummy" switches that you can click on.Are you really from Eaglesoft?

[Guest allcott]

Daryll,As you can't fall out of the sim cockpit after opening the sim window at a simulated 1,000 feet either, I think your demands are unrealistic. The sim allows for many consequences but pressurisation modelling is not one of them. The reasons ahave been explained, your response was rude and uncalled for. Do it yourself if you want it done.Why not take flying lessons for real, then you could get a sense of what is REALLY important in the sim?Allcott

[DaryllB25840 1]

I can see we aren't coming from the same place.I made no demands, if I seemed rude to you then I apologize for you having to read it. I made a statement to the general forum about the real world and flying, how could I have known the president of the company wanted to assume a purely philosophical position regarding the human body, phyics of the flying and Flight Sim. GEEZZZThis ends my discussion on the matter.

[Guest John_Cillis]

"Flying (besides space travel) puts the human body under the most extreme conditions that measure that narrow time line between living and dying in seconds. Hey , flying IS dangerous and I don't consider Flight Sim a computer game."I agree with Allcott's reply. I think your reply (especially the last line) is way off base. Since you want flying to be "real", why not model the screams and muffled gasps of the passengers as well.... Heck, I'm still trying to figure out whether I'm going to live a long life, or whether I'm suffering from an illness which will take it away. I can't be in forums much lately, but it really disturbs me to see people putting a good developer down because they don't model the "danger" in flying. Maybe I need a cancer gauge in their products to remind me of the stress I am going through...Reason why I copied the quote above is I've flown more than a million miles--granted, in the pax seat 99.9 pct. of the time with the exception of a few lessons. Still, I can state that flying ISN'T so dangerous a vendor should have to model something that goes against their sense of decency. Perhaps you don't consider flight sim a computer game, but truth is it's sold as an entertainment title, and it is also that to many of Eaglesoft's buyers. I DO think the gauge can be tied to some type of audible alarm--if it already is, then it's already more than dummy switches. And I don't consider it wrong for people to ask for some type of pilot effect related to the feature. I do think it wrong that Eaglesoft chose to respond, and stated their reasons for things being as they are, only to receive a rather trashy comment, IMHO....rant over 'n 'nuff said-John BTW, for those who've been asking, I've another CT scan scheduled. Dr. is hopeful I'm just slow in recovering from my original illness, but wants to compare CT scans to look for any change indicating something more serious

[N400QW 205]

>Are you really from Eaglesoft?

[Guest LLgaz]

Well, as always, someone will model some sort of consequence.....maybe not the pilot's death.....but something more than just an audible alarm, from not operating the pressurization properly. And when that happens, everyone else thats refusing to do something now, will jump on the bandwagon.If everyone were shortsighted about modelling systems then we would still be in FSversion2 days. I agree that modelling adverse effects on a pilot leading to his death is rather extreme, (even though that's modelled if we run out of fuel and crash) but surely there's got to be something else that can be done.Flight1's DC9 has this extremely annoying alarm that sounds as soon as you pass 6000ft I believe...not much but still something to at least give some sort of consequence for not operating the pressurization system properly. In that respect, it is quite educational.We must never become complacent with FS. I think we should be constantly trying to push the envelope further and squeeze everything possible out of this sim. It should be the goal of every developer to introduce something new that is innovative with each product he makes.

[N400QW 205]

The CX cabin pressure and oxygen systems ARE modeled with the correct warnings and procedures and even include oxygen depletion/replenish feature.:-)We simply will not model the death of the pilots, crew or passengers....sheeesh:-(The manual is available for free from our Documentation Page for any one who is interested:-)

[Guest P3_Super_Bee]

MSFS has had "red out" / "black out" for some time now. Though I believe it is modeled into the aircraft and/or panel. Take Roger Dial's P-51 Mustang out for a spin and pull some serious G's / -G's :) Same with the screaming passenger thing. Back in I think FS2000, was never sure if it was the airplane or the panel. Neither the plane nor the panel advertised the feature. Leaning more toward the panel. But if certain peramiters were meet "All Hell broke Loose" in the cabin. Did a hard landing. And was WOW. and it was freakin' load too. So with that, It must not be a very "in demand" item or everybody would already be doing it...

:-outta

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[jeffyen 0]

Although red outs can be found in some of the fighter planes for FS9, the issue here clearly isn't a technical one. It's one about aesthetics and 'good taste'.If deaths of passengers are simulated, I think the most basic advancement should be what a cockpit looks like when it crashes. I'm not sure what modern fighter flight sims portray this grim event. Was it in the old Wing Commander series where the pilot would move his hands over this face, look away, screams...and the whole screen goes white.I don't think a civilian flight sim should necessarity go that route... ;)

[Guest LLgaz]

I completely agree that simulating death of a pilot or passengers would be way too extreme. I don't think anyone in their right mind would do that anyway.On the other hand, with a bit of imagination and innovation the educational aspect of the sim can remain.For example:When the cabin pressure systems aren't operated properly, it will have an adverse effect on the pilot. This would cause the pilot's reflexes and reactions to be slow and sluggish, at least in the begining...........that can be modelled. So for example, pushing on your yoke would cause the aircraft in FS to respond very slowly. Until you hit the button for the oxygen masks to be released. After a short period of time your responses would return to normal, simulating that you've had enough oxygen through the mask, and you would be required to descend to a more appropriate altitude or whatever else........That is just a simple idea pulled off the top of my head. As you can see, no one died, no death was modelled.We should get off this whole modelling death thing.....that doesn't have to be modelled, neither does screeming passengers have to be modelled to keep the sim real and educational. But other things can be done which is a direct consequence of your mishandling of the aircraft.