777 OOM - depleted VAS (my brand)

[CaptKornDog 290]

I count 27 approaches on the 05 Feb 2015 Terminal Procedures You realize I got the VAS leakage for RNAV 25R using 1407 R2. So 1407 is not the panacea I thought it was. I am fortunate that I use ILS 25L for all approaches and landings.

Sorry to hear that. Yep, 27 approaches is going to be a doozy to go through. But if we can identify the troublesome ones, regardless of AIRAC, maybe we can find a pattern.

Hi guys

Just trying to get back into my T7 after months of non use due to OOM frustration. Hence trying to plough through this, and many other threads.  I'm intrigued....  All you guys flying in and out of KLAX....  Are you using DEFAULT KLAX or an aftermarket addon?  I do not have ASN installed but do use Opus.  I use Aerosoft LAX, and cannot get my T7 within 10 miles of the place before being hit with OOM;( This applies with pretty much ANY scenery or traffic settings applied!  Got ALL my other airport and scenery addons DEselected too.  Bah humbug! ;-)

For my testing, I'm using default.

[CaptKornDog 290]

Alright, focusing on the ILS 25L approach at KLAX.  Here is the approach entry in KLAX.txt that causes a VAS leak (from 1502) when I select it:

APPROACH ILS25L FIX HUNDA AT OR ABOVE 3600 FIX LIMMA 1900 RNW 25L TRK 251 UNTIL 800 TRK 180 INTERCEPT RADIAL 210 TO FIX CATLY FIX CATLY AT OR ABOVE 2000 HOLD AT FIX CATLY RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 210 LEGTIME 1
TRANSITION RIIVR FIX RIIVR AT OR BELOW 14000 AT OR ABOVE 12000 FIX LUVYN AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX KRAIN AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX TAROC AT OR ABOVE 9000 FIX DYMMO AT OR ABOVE 8000 FIX FUELR AT OR ABOVE 7000 FIX GAATE AT OR ABOVE 5000
TRANSITION SEAVU FIX SEAVU AT OR BELOW 14000 AT OR ABOVE 12000 FIX LUVYN AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX KRAIN AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX TAROC AT OR ABOVE 9000 FIX DYMMO AT OR ABOVE 8000 FIX FUELR AT OR ABOVE 7000 FIX GAATE AT OR ABOVE 5000
TRANSITION SLI FIX SLI FIX GAATE AT OR ABOVE 5000

Which I've changed to,( from 1309's entry)

APPROACH ILS25L FIX HUNDA 1900 FIX LIMMA 1900 RNW 25L TRK 251 UNTIL 800 FIX CATLY AT OR ABOVE 2000 HOLD AT FIX CATLY RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 210 LEGTIME 1
TRANSITION SLI FIX SLI FIX GAATE AT OR ABOVE 5000
TRANSITION SEAVU FIX SEAVU AT OR BELOW 14000 AT OR ABOVE 12000 FIX LUVYN AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX KRAIN AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX TAROC AT OR ABOVE 9000 FIX DYMMO AT OR ABOVE 8000 FIX FUELR AT OR ABOVE 7000 FIX GAATE AT OR ABOVE 5000
TRANSITION RIIVR FIX RIIVR AT OR BELOW 14000 AT OR ABOVE 12000 FIX LUVYN AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX KRAIN AT OR ABOVE 10000 FIX TAROC AT OR ABOVE 9000 FIX DYMMO AT OR ABOVE 8000 FIX FUELR AT OR ABOVE 7000 FIX GAATE AT OR ABOVE 5000

===========================================

 

You'll notice, besides the order of the transitions, the only difference is

 

(1309)

APPROACH ILS25L FIX HUNDA 1900 FIX LIMMA 1900 RNW 25L TRK 251 UNTIL 800 FIX CATLY AT OR ABOVE 2000 HOLD AT FIX CATLY RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 210 LEGTIME 1

(1502)

APPROACH ILS25L FIX HUNDA AT OR ABOVE 3600 FIX LIMMA 1900 RNW 25L TRK 251 UNTIL 800 TRK 180 INTERCEPT RADIAL 210 TO FIX CATLY FIX CATLY AT OR ABOVE 2000 HOLD AT FIX CATLY RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 210 LEGTIME 1

[JRBarrett 3,304]

@CaptKornDog

 

Do you select your expected KLAX ILS approach as part of your pre-departure FMS programming before takeoff from KJFJ? If so, I wonder what effect it would have on the apparent VAS leak, if you only selected your expected STAR pre-departure - or even postponed the STAR entry too, until nearing the end of your cruise phase?

 

Apologies if you have already tried that... I may have missed it. In any case, kudos for your dedicated engineering-style approach to trying to find the cause of this problem!

[CaptKornDog 290]

@CaptKornDog

 

Do you select your expected KLAX ILS approach as part of your pre-departure FMS programming before takeoff from KJFJ? If so, I wonder what effect it would have on the apparent VAS leak, if you only selected your expected STAR pre-departure - or even postponed the STAR entry too, until nearing the end of your cruise phase?

 

Apologies if you have already tried that... I may have missed it. In any case, kudos for your dedicated engineering-style approach to trying to find the cause of this problem!

 

Thanks - just wanting to get my 777 enjoyably working properly again, and hopefully helping others in the process.

 

I've attempted it in a few different spots in flight.  A few attempts were pre-flight.  Somewhere in the middle of cruise (swapping between assorted other approaches to see if I can get the VAS leak to stop or come back in cruise - usually with 1-2 hours between each selection to observe the results).

[CaptKornDog 290]

Alright, I've narrowed the VAS leak as a result of selecting ILS 25L at KLAX somewhere in:

 

 

TRK 251 UNTIL 800 TRK 180 INTERCEPT RADIAL 210 TO FIX CATLY FIX CATLY AT OR ABOVE 2000 HOLD AT FIX CATLY RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 210 LEGTIME 1

 

Something in there, the 777 doesn't play well with.  I've tried removing or changing some bits in there to isolate it further but it just results in absolutely no runways or approaches showing up in the FMS.  So, unfortunately, that's really the best I can do.  pcubine, hopefully something comes from your support ticket.

 

I'm sorry guys, I'm really dried up on ideas.

 

Other approaches I've examined so far...

RNVY06L appears not to leak.

ILS06R appears not to leak.

ILS24R appears not to leak.

ILS25R appears to leak.

ILS24L appears not to leak.

[JRBarrett 3,304]

Alright, I've narrowed the VAS leak as a result of selecting ILS 25L at KLAX somewhere in:

 

TRK 251 UNTIL 800 TRK 180 INTERCEPT RADIAL 210 TO FIX CATLY FIX CATLY AT OR ABOVE 2000 HOLD AT FIX CATLY RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 210 LEGTIME 1

Something in there, the 777 doesn't play well with. I've tried removing or changing some bits in there to isolate it further but it just results in absolutely no runways or approaches showing up in the FMS. So, unfortunately, that's really the best I can do. pcubine, hopefully something comes from your support ticket.

 

I'm sorry guys, I'm really dried up on ideas.

 

Other approaches I've examined so far...

RNVY06L appears not to leak.

ILS06R appears not to leak.

ILS24R appears not to leak.

ILS25R appears to leak.

ILS24L appears not to leak.

Interesting. That text appears to be the missed approach procedure with a hold... It appears to accurately reflect the r/w missed approach, although that procedure says to fly a heading of 180 (not 190) to intercept the 210 VOR radial

[downscc 1,328]

Still waiting for the smoking gun.... I've flown the ILS25L at least a four our five times in current cycle 1502 and don't see a problem.  I am glad they fixed the altitude constraint at HUNDA too, I used to manually fix that before TOD... now all I have to do is allow the FMS to take her down and line her up.  I do not use a LAX scenery, only using FSDT KLAX airport.

 

I've added a bunch of FTX Orbx stuff so I am flying the KATL KLAX test flight I use for VAS tests right now.

[signmanbob 592]

The idea of Slick9 seems to work for me. I reinstalled ASN and did EDDF(Aerosoft)-KIAH(FSDT) with no OOM occurrences. VAS started at 2.6 when lined up in Frankfurt, gradually increased to 3.0 at Scotland and 3.1-3.2 over Canada and the United States and stayed there until KIAH when it went to 3.65.

 

When you say reinstall, are you uninstalling it first, then reinstalling?  Or just installing over top.

[CaptKornDog 290]

Still waiting for the smoking gun....

 

So am I, Dan.

 

The farthest I can go:

 

Literally changing

TRK 251 UNTIL 800 TRK 180 INTERCEPT RADIAL 210 TO FIX CATLY FIX CATLY AT OR ABOVE 2000 HOLD AT FIX CATLY RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 210 LEGTIME 1

to

TRK 251 UNTIL 800 FIX CATLY AT OR ABOVE 2000 HOLD AT FIX CATLY RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 210 LEGTIME 1

Fixes any VAS leaking (still 200-250 MB/hour) I have when I select ILS 25L.

 

I'm hoping any of the developers at this point might be able to help with pcubine's support ticket, since I obviously don't know the inner-workings of the product.

 

 

 

I'll finish up testing tonight and tomorrow, hopefully, with all of the other approaches into KLAX, but I'm rapidly reaching the end of any other methodical data I can provide.  I suppose my workaround is to simply use 1309 KLAX approaches manually installed, and 1502 everything else.  And, of course, see what happens when 1503 comes out.

[virge 1]

The only real solution as most people know is a 64 bit simulator. Hopefully P3D will come through soon with such a solution. I think better memory management is only a partial solution. Given the fact that a 32 bit application has a maximum of 4GB of VAS, and in order to provide a smooth flow, the only real solution is 64 bit. In order to fully avoid OOM issues in a 32 bit simulation, is to flush the VAS on the fly in real time as you leave a given area, and them load the new area you are entering, which of course I believe would introduce breaks in the flow of the simulation as the new area loaded. Considering the fact that every type of addon, is becoming more demanding, means the situation will only get worse.

[CaptKornDog 290]

The only real solution as most people know is a 64 bit simulator. Hopefully P3D will come through soon with such a solution. I think better memory management is only a partial solution. Given the fact that a 32 bit application has a maximum of 4GB of VAS, and in order to provide a smooth flow, the only real solution is 64 bit. In order to fully avoid OOM issues in a 32 bit simulation, is to flush the VAS on the fly in real time as you leave a given area, and them load the new area you are entering, which of course I believe would introduce breaks in the flow of the simulation as the new area loaded. Considering the fact that every type of addon, is becoming more demanding, means the situation will only get worse.

 

While I agree that 64-bit will be a whole new world to the community, I disagree in the context of this thread.  Some of us are trying to investigate specific instances of VAS leaking in certain scenarios that didn't previously exist on our systems, trying to isolate what has changed or is different than previously.

[pcubine 143]

I suppose my workaround is to simply use 1309 KLAX approaches manually installed, and 1502 everything else. And, of course, see what happens when 1503 comes out.

That is about it right now. The ticket I submitted to PMDG was answered with some boilerplate blah about VAS usage as opposed to leakage. I answered trying to explain it was leakage not usage. The status is waiting on an agent. Could be a good or bad sign. There trying to solve it or sent it to file 13. See this thread at Navigraph - http://www.navigraph.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2093. They have had incorrect IAF's on some approaches at KTPA and KMIA for 4 years now. I don't even know where the data they convert to a usable format comes from. It's pretty much he end of the road unless 1503 is correct or PMDG comes thru.

[alexzar14 5]

I reinstalled ASN as suggested and flue MD-11F KLAX-EDDF (FSDT & Aerosoft) with ASN, landed no problem believing the ASN reinstallation did the trick.

Then I flew a 773 KIAH-EGLL (FSDT-Aerosoft again) and began getting VAS beeping signals (no crash though) on LOC intercept (it was 9L) with performance deteriorating to 14 fps where otherwise it is 18-20. I knew it would end in OOM crash so I closed the sim and restarted reloadeding the approach (I always save it). Very angry.

 

Now going into the Cycle versions is not what I want to even consider, I guess I will have to give up on ASN?

Either that or closing-restarting the sim on approach... what would you do?

 

Last weekends I flew 777 and iFly 747 on long flights with ASN off with no problems, these airplanes  (the software) just don't work with ASN/AS2012, and I have pretty low settings there with cloud layers at 3 and many resource-demanding features being disabled, it's pretty much down to visuals only.

 

PS

I just got an idea! Does anybody have any experiences with REX-weather? I'll just go with that if that works with PMDG and get over with this issue. Guys please investigate anyone with REX.

[CaptKornDog 290]

Alright, here are my findings for all the KLAX IAPs:

 

KLAX, no runway/approach selected - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
ILS06L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
ILS06R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
ILS07L - smaller VAS leaking observed, compared to 25L/25R, about half rate (~100-200 MB/hour)
ILS07R - smaller VAS leaking observed, compared to 25L/25R, about half rate (~100-200 MB/hour)
ILS24L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
ILS24R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
ILS25L - VAS leaking observed (~200-250 MB/hour)
ILS25R - VAS leaking observed (~200-250 MB/hour)
RNVY06L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVZ06L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVY06R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVZ06R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVY07L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVZ07L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVY07R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVZ07R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVY24L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVZ24L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVY24R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVZ24R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVY25L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNVZ25L - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)
RNV25R - no VAS leaking observed (~10-20 MB/hour or less)

 

For what it's worth, it appears in the KLAX.txt file, ILS25R and ILS25L share the same missed approach procedure.  As well as ILS07L and ILS07R.

[CaptKornDog 290]

Also, changed the respective "TRK 180" to the correct 190/200 track (for 25L/25R).  No visible difference on VAS bleeding.  Will try changing the TRK to HDG (like the approach chart calls for) on the next attempt.