Why adjusting control sensitivity is not the answer

[kapitan 90]

how your fuel and payload?, if its heavy it will be very marginal

[norman_99 209]

10 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Still a bit off to me. I tried to fly fully loaded at max gross and I can’t even reach 3000 ft without stall horn flaps or no flaps. Can’t believe Caravan would do it in real life 

What speed were you climbing at?

Our profile was takeoff flap 20, initial climb out 85Kts. At 200', reduce flap to 10 (missing from the sim aircraft) and accelerate to 95Kts. At 1000ft, flap up and climb out at Vy, 104 Kts for max weight. This is for a a standard 208B model with the 675 hp engine. Not sure what the EX model has, but it should preform better.

[sd_flyer 6,206]

10 minutes ago, norman_99 said:

What speed were you climbing at?

Our profile was takeoff flap 20, initial climb out 85Kts. At 200', reduce flap to 10 (missing from the sim aircraft) and accelerate to 95Kts. At 1000ft, flap up and climb out at Vy, 104 Kts for max weight. This is for a a standard 208B model with the 675 hp engine. Not sure what the EX model has, but it should preform better.

Let me try that. Did you guys carry full load of pax?

[norman_99 209]

Close, I use FSEconomy to load my aircraft for me, so I'm not exactly sure of the in sim payload. Just be careful with the flap retraction, as there is no flap 10 position, I recommend 85-95Kts up to 1000'. Make sure your at 95Kts before you raise the flaps, as they'll go from 20 to 0.

Edited August 22, 2020 by norman_99

[sd_flyer 6,206]

8 minutes ago, norman_99 said:

Close, I use FSEconomy to load my aircraft for me, so I'm not exactly sure of the in sim payload. Just be careful with the flap retraction, as there is no flap 10 position, I recommend 85-95Kts up to 1000'. Make sure your at 95Kts before you raise the flaps, as they'll go from 20 to 0.

Ok I loaded Caravan at nearly max gross. 20 degrees flaps. Elevator trim at take off setting, my front wheel gets up at 55 I rotated around 70. Then 300fpm at around 75kts. At 1000 agl I pull flaps up accelerated to 95kts. And now I'm climbing at 120 kts at 800fpm

[sd_flyer 6,206]

What typical power setting in cruise?

[norman_99 209]

1750 RPM and 1600-2000lbs, Keep ITT in the green. We had a cruise power table that referenced altitude and OAT, we set power off that. I'm not a precise in the sim, especially as the flight model is not that accurate in the first place.

[sd_flyer 6,206]

13 minutes ago, norman_99 said:

1750 RPM and 1600-2000lbs, Keep ITT in the green. We had a cruise power table that referenced altitude and OAT, we set power off that. I'm not a precise in the sim, especially as the flight model is not that accurate in the first place.

Thansk! I just found on internet 1600 rpm  2,145ft/lbs 420pph at 5000 ft

Here what I'm getting at the moment in MSFS - cruising at 9000 ft: 1600 rpm, 2154ft/lbs, 425pph and speed IAS146 kts or TAS168 kts (GW 8395lbs). Is that about right?

[norman_99 209]

Yeah sounds good enough. I'm not familiar with the EX model so can't be too specific. Also, I'm not expecting default aircraft to hit book figures at all either.

[DRF30q 131]

On 8/20/2020 at 7:16 AM, robert young said:

Even in challenging conditions they do not buck up and down in pitch, nor do they yaw 50 degrees from left to right in less than a third of a second. They are designed to be stable, and they are.

Just trying to come to terms with the issues being discussed here.  Using the stock C172 from the simulation with no modification and with various Sensitivity settings from 0 (linear) to say -30% etc and various airspeeds from 60 knots to 120 knots etc I am not able to replicate this behaviour even remotely.  With full rudder deflection I am not seeing more than an eventual total of 20 to 30 degrees of yaw and certainly nothing like 50 degrees in 1/3 second. 

I am interested to understand the circumstance under which these result were observed.

[sd_flyer 6,206]

11 hours ago, norman_99 said:

Yeah sounds good enough. I'm not familiar with the EX model so can't be too specific. Also, I'm not expecting default aircraft to hit book figures at all either.

Here is an interesting one. According article below at 9000 ft Grand Caravan EX gets 390pph at 180 kts (i'm assuming TAS)

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2013-10-04/air-cessna-grand-caravan-ex#:~:text=While the new engine has,390 pph at 180 knots.

Now I'm cruising at 10000t 2102 ft/lb 1600rpm and I'm getting 430pph,  141 indicated or 160 TAS. Now my gross at the moment 7386 that is 2 people, luggage and top off tanks 

So I'm off 20 kts and 40 pph. Now one thing I don't if EX in article had cargo pad or not

[cwburnett 1,809]

On 8/21/2020 at 8:19 PM, norman_99 said:

Well it turns out I can now contradict my self, and I have been partially wrong with my C208 assessment. I just discovered the flap 10 position has been omitted completely! I just use switches to raise and lower flap, so I never noticed. I've either been flying around with no flap, or 20 degrees, when I thought I had 10 degrees. This partially explains some of the handling, and the odd unexpected stall warning, Haha. In this light, it's better than I first thought. Not great, but not unflyable either.

So...I thought I'd try to set flaps 10. Guess what, you can! With the mouse, you can move the flap handle anywhere you like, including to the 10 degree spot.  I think for this plane, maybe I need to map a throttle axis to flaps so I can use the flaps 10 setting - using the mouse is a little cumbersome.  Thanks for talking about flaps 10 - learned something new!

@sd_flyer you might be interested in this too!

[DRF30q 131]

On 8/22/2020 at 7:37 PM, DRF30q said:

Just trying to come to terms with the issues being discussed here.  Using the stock C172 from the simulation with no modification and with various Sensitivity settings from 0 (linear) to say -30% etc and various airspeeds from 60 knots to 120 knots etc I am not able to replicate this behaviour even remotely.  With full rudder deflection I am not seeing more than an eventual total of 20 to 30 degrees of yaw and certainly nothing like 50 degrees in 1/3 second. 

I am interested to understand the circumstance under which these result were observed.

I note that so far there has been no response to this.

Discussion and analysis of the new simulator is currently of great interest to many people, myself included.  As has always been the case in the past with a newly released simulator, it appears that some aspects of the flight models for aircraft in the new sim do appear to have some issues.  My first impressions are that the current flight models for both the Cessna 172 and in particular the Cessna 152 have many aspects that are quite well done and do capture the feeling of the aircraft.  Obviously there are still aspects to the flight models that are still not quite right.

I respectfully request that people attempt to keep their criticisms and analysis objective, accurate, repeatable and without exaggeration.

Edited August 23, 2020 by DRF30q

[Kronzky 34]

It seems like we have too many variables to have any productive discussion (or effective troubleshooting).

We got different planes, locations, weather, daytime, controllers, assistances and flight models.

Of course there will be different opinions on how things behave, with such a variety of options.

Unless we can all agree to test on a standardized platform we will just continue talking past each other...

I don't really have time at the moment to set up such a standard (and to test the different variables), but if we want to get to the bottom of these control issues (and I think they do exist, and need to be addressed) we need to tackle this topic a bit more "scientifically".

[ksr8810 1]

did anyone have problem with Thrustmaster TWCS throttle controller? My TWCS always have positive input on both ends of the travel so I have no control on throttle in flight.

Edited August 27, 2020 by ksr8810