They sorry

[Chock 17,770]

30 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

it is always about the Money.  Plain and simple

It is a business after all.

True, they might have intended it to be all about the money, but in the end if you behave in a manner which puts people off buying your stuff as they did, then it ends up being all about getting less or even no money, And it seems they realised that, and embraced the notion that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

But it's worth considering that for many, their job is not always about the money; sure it helps and might even be one of the major reasons you do a job, but I've done lots of jobs where it was more about liking the job than what the particular wage was and I'm certainly not alone in that. I would guess that a large portion of flight sim developers probably started out doing freeware stuff because they liked doing that and graduated to making it their living, or at least part of their living, and many of them probably could earn more in another sector with their same skill set.

So it's not always all about the money, and it's not as if there is always a dividing line between 'the flight sim community' and 'the developers'; there are for the most part just people who like aeroplanes and flight sims. That was the real issue I had with this recent fiasco from CS; they did something which actually did put a very definite line between devs and enthusiasts, and there was no way I was going to let that one fly. I'm glad lots of people felt the same about that as well and also spoke up about it. I am proud to be part of a community which won't stand for that kind of cr*p.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Chock

[styckx 1,872]

9 minutes ago, Chock said:

True, they might have intended it to be all about the money, but in the end if you behave in a manner which puts people off buying your stuff as they did, then it ends up being all about getting less or even no money, And it seems they realised that, and embraced the notion that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

Chock, you've been around for ages so I know you'll know what I mean when I say this.

What CS did was a very giant reflection of how "the old guard" of flight simming and even the community itself used to operate. The entire "Us Vs Them" attitude. It was BAD for many of years. P3D diluted that mindset a bit, X-Plane getting Orbx and major 3rd party support further diluted it.

MSFS 2020 nearly BURIED what was left of that way of thinking.  Yes, MSFS has its issues but the community it created could never have been imagined just 5 years ago. Let alone well before that. The bickering, the threats, the bullying.. Belittling users because they didn't know how to program a FMC and had honest questions. GA simmers aren't looked down upon anymore. All of it. Nearly non-existent. 

I love it. For once I feel we're FINALLY all on the same page of support and being there for one another.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by styckx

[Ricardo41 5,990]

Let's be honest here: the problem with Captain Sim is not necessarily the addons they produce, it's the customer service (or lack thereof).

The products themselves are, on balance, actually quite decent. I've had plenty of run-ins with them but, overall, what they sold was ok. Mind you, not great, but ok. I owned their C130 and their 707 and thought I got my money's worth. 

But the customer service is another matter: not really interested in establishing community relations with their buyers, quick to ban someone from their forums, an overall arrogant attitude, etc. 

They share these attitudes with - let me raise this corpse here - Peter Tishma/Papa Tango/ Ariane Design. In fact, I owned PT's CRJ, the one that was supposedly endorsed by Austrian Airlines. It was an ok addon. I ordered the box set. It came with a picture of a smiling female Austrian Airlines CRJ pilot on the box cover, inside was a booklet, a CD, and a pen. Not bad. It flew ok. I also owned Ariane Designs BBJ 737. Also a very decent, albeit slightly overpriced, addon. 

But the customer service of Ariane Design was a nightmare - and that's putting it mildly. 

Back to Captain Sim: products that are quite nice, delivered with a lousy and cantankerous attitude toward their customers. Up to you to decide whether this is worth your money. 

[Target71 115]

2 minutes ago, styckx said:

Chock, you've been around for ages so I know you'll know what I mean when I say this.

What CS did was a very giant reflection of how "the old guard" of flight simming and even the community itself used to operate. The entire "Us Vs Them" attitude. It was BAD for many of years. P3D diluted that mindset a bit, X-Plane getting Orbx and major 3rd party support further diluted it.

MSFS 2020 nearly BURIED what was left of that way of thinking.  Yes, MSFS has its issues but the community it created could never have been imagined just 5 years ago. Let alone well before that. The bickering, the threats, the bullying.. Belittling users because they didn't know how to program a FMC and had honest questions. GA simmers aren't looked down upon anymore. All of it. Nearly non-existent. 

I love it. For once I feel we're FINALLY all on the same page of support and being there for one another.

 

QFT

I am in the 50+ crowd and have been flight simming since microprose days on DOS. I have been coming to AVSIM for information for at least a decade but as you can see I have only recently joined and even more recently started to post. I am never a prolific poster b/c there is so much word not allowed that happens on the interwebs. The community that has risen up around MSFS is by and large pretty awesome. 

PS - Chock, you have a pretty great guitar collection...I am Bass guy first and foremost but I do love my 91' American California Fat Strat

[Target71 115]

edit - The Strat is a '99 my Ric 4001 is a 91' 🙂

 

[Chock 17,770]

1 hour ago, Target71 said:

PS - Chock, you have a pretty great guitar collection...I am Bass guy first and foremost but I do love my 91' American California Fat Strat

Could never really get into Strats. I've had a few of them over the years, but I ended up giving them all away to people who were learning. This is about half of my collection:

From the front that's a 91 Epiphone Les Paul Studio, 87 Tele Thinline made from various bits, standard 87 Tele, Aria MBA, Hofner Violin bass, GFM electro-acoustic, Silvertone acoustic which I added a pickup to, an Epiphone AJ jumbo acoustic also with a pick up and a reverb unit and at the back is a Redwood 12 string.

Up in the loft there's a Rickenbacker 4003, Harmony Sovereign, Fender MA1, Dobro Resonator, an Artisan Archtop, a G Banjo, a Top Twenty with a Bigsby, a Harley Benton Tele with a Gibson PAF at the bridge, a Squier Mustang modified with a Jazzmaster vibrato and Soapbox P90s, plus a mandolin. I might get another one of those racks lol.

As you can probably guess, I like Telecasters and I made that green Thinline up from bits to replace a 69 Thinline which got nicked off me years ago (still annoyed about that), and so just in case anyone nicks this one off me and tries to sell it, I'd like to see the look on their face if they try to pass it off as a genuine Fender in a guitar shop when someone who knows about Telecasters sees what I put on the headstock:

Fun Telecaster facts:

Everyone knows Jimi Hendrix played an upside down Stratocaster, but what most people don't know, is that the solos on Hey Joe and Purple Haze were both played on a Telecaster which Jimi borrowed off bandmate Noel Redding. Conversely, everyone thinks the famous twangy James Bond theme was played on a Telecaster because of the sound, but it's actually a Strat.

When Cliff Richard’s career took off, he wanted the leader of his backing band - Hank Marvin of the Shadows - then struggling with a cheaply made Japanese Antoria, to have the best available electric guitar. He asked Marvin which guitar he would like as a gift and Marvin knew that his personal favorite guitarist, James Burton, who played with pop idol Ricky Nelson, used a Fender, but he mistakenly assumed it would be a Stratocaster because that was at the time the most expensive electric guitar in Fender's range, so Cliff Richard bought him one. He later learned that Burton played a Telecaster, but by that time he had adopted the vibrato of the Strat to shape the sound of the Shadows!

Most people know that Jimmy Page usually played either a Les Paul or a double necked Gibson at gigs, but the vast majority of Led Zeppelin guitar solos were played on a Telecaster, and much of the time the rhythm parts were played on a cheap Danelectro. Similarly, Stairway to Heaven was played on a cheap Harmony Sovereign and the solo was played on a Telecaster, but because of its association with the famous tune, Harmony Sovereigns go for a lot of money nowadays. I paid way too much money for mine just because I'm sad and wanted one!

Edited May 24, 2021 by Chock

[Bob Scott 7,795]

Captain Sim has a long and spotted history in this community...their business and marketing strategy has been all over the map, often with the same kind of results as a guy with a well-worn 3 Wood in a tile bathroom.

They're flaky, and that's well-known.  You never know what you're gonna get when you do business with them.

But this time it's different.

They copied the freely-given work of others--repainters and modders--off of other sites without asking and put it up on their own site, while threatening legal action against the sites the painters and modders *did* publish the works on.  How is that anything short of theft?  Whether it meets the legal definition of a crime in any particular jurisdiction is beside the point--it's expropriating the work of others for your own gain.  Whatever hangover-fueled thought process that might make someone think this is all right is *not* acceptable.  Not by a long shot.  Issuing a mea culpa after it becomes clear that you've dropped your drawers in front of an international audience doesn't answer the question of how you could have thought the work of others was ever yours for the taking.

So here's the question: If you catch someone trying to go out the door with your stuff in their pockets, would you let them back in your house after they say "I'm sorry?"

I would not.

[Target71 115]

Sweet, is that the Aslan signature series I have been hearing about? I don't have access to pictures right now but besides my Ric I have a 5 string American Fender Jazz that plays like butter, a 70's era Yamaha 12 string acoustic, an Ovation Maverick II (79' I think), a Mando Bass (custom stand up jobbie for Bluegrass stuff) and a bunch of knock offs and pawn shop babies. Anyway, we have expensive hobbies and I will stop keeping this (hopefully) dying thread alive...

[bobcat999 8,571]

1 hour ago, Target71 said:

QFT

I am in the 50+ crowd and have been flight simming since microprose days on DOS. I have been coming to AVSIM for information for at least a decade but as you can see I have only recently joined and even more recently started to post...

Welcome mate! 

[Gazzareth 879]

13 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Captain Sim has a long and spotted history in this community...their business and marketing strategy has been all over the map, often with the same kind of results as a guy with a well-worn 3 Wood in a tile bathroom.

They're flaky, and that's well-known.  You never know what you're gonna get when you do business with them.

But this time it's different.

They copied the freely-given work of others--repainters and modders--off of other sites without asking and put it up on their own site, while threatening legal action against the sites the painters and modders *did* publish the works on.  How is that anything short of theft?  Whether it meets the legal definition of a crime in any particular jurisdiction is beside the point--it's expropriating the work of others for your own gain.  Whatever hangover-fueled thought process that might make someone think this is all right is *not* acceptable.  Not by a long shot.  Issuing a mea culpa after it becomes clear that you've dropped your drawers in front of an international audience doesn't answer the question of how you could have thought the work of others was ever yours for the taking.

So here's the question: If you catch someone trying to go out the door with your stuff in their pockets, would you let them back in your house after they say "I'm sorry?"

I would not.

According to the statement at flightsim.to CS are still going to be lifting the repaints and putting them on their own system/site, just removed the takedown.

So they're sorry, but they're not giving you your stuff back.

G

[BostonJeremy77 543]

Yeah, they STILL will take people's work without permission AND not credit them. This is NOT much better, simply the takedown of fs.to is gone. Everything else stays according to them. 

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

2 hours ago, Chock said:

Everyone knows Jimi Hendrix played an upside down Stratocaster, but what most people don't know, is that the solos on Hey Joe and Purple Haze were both played on a Telecaster which Jimi borrowed off bandmate Noel Redding. Conversely, everyone thinks the famous twangy James Bond theme was played on a Telecaster because of the sound, but it's actually a Strat.

When Cliff Richard’s career took off, he wanted the leader of his backing band - Hank Marvin of the Shadows - then struggling with a cheaply made Japanese Antoria, to have the best available electric guitar. He asked Marvin which guitar he would like as a gift and Marvin knew that his personal favorite guitarist, James Burton, who played with pop idol Ricky Nelson, used a Fender, but he mistakenly assumed it would be a Stratocaster because that was at the time the most expensive electric guitar in Fender's range, so Cliff Richard bought him one. He later learned that Burton played a Telecaster, but by that time he had adopted the vibrato of the Strat to shape the sound of the Shadows!

Most people know that Jimmy Page usually played either a Les Paul or a double necked Gibson at gigs, but the vast majority of Led Zeppelin guitar solos were played on a Telecaster, and much of the time the rhythm parts were played on a cheap Danelectro. Similarly, Stairway to Heaven was played on a cheap Harmony Sovereign and the solo was played on a Telecaster, but because of its association with the famous tune, Harmony Sovereigns go for a lot of money nowadays. I paid way too much money for mine just because I'm sad and wanted one!

this is a well known fact about the telecaster. Everyone knows a telecaster is a superior instrument anyway 😛

[Target71 115]

the Tele is the Hammer of the Honky Tonk gods...if I was primarily a guitar player I would mos def have one, but I actually have rhythm and can count to four (and even eight sometimes)  😛

Edited May 24, 2021 by Target71

[himmelhorse 1,277]

5 hours ago, kaosfere said:

But, as Chock said, life is too short for grudges.  Personally, they've lost me as a customer until they manage to go a while without doing anything else asinine.  But I'm not going to sweat it, and unless there's a repeat performance they're not going on the eternal blacklist that one or two other developers have put themselves on with repeat offense.

I am not, nor have ever been a customer of CS.  From that point of view I am an outsider looking in.  This is not because they are on a blacklist. I am simply, and have been for a long time, very wary of their alleged antics over the long term. In much the same way, it took me a very long time before I bought a Carenado product, and I guess that involved a compromise of MY expectations.  

My concern (for myself and others) is how do we recognize a repeat performance BEFORE a lot of people get burnt in the future.  It is hard to recognize redemption before demonstrable facts prove that a change of behaviour has actually occurred. As you have pointed out some or most of the following is lacking and I quote,

1. Acknowledgement.  ("I realize that I have caused you pain.")
2. Regret. ("I feel terrible that I have caused you this pain.")
3. Restitution ("How can I make it up to you?")

If there is one thing I have learnt in my life, it is that "trust lost is very hard to get back" I feel that this is the huge hurdle that Captain Sim now faces and it is hard to dispute that it is a situation of their own making, and, compounded by the liveries debacle. 

I do hope they bounce back but that is hard to see at this point of time. They have done themselves a lot of damage.

Tony

[styckx 1,872]

And they are still being stubborn morons about this. Flightsim.to should have never  reenabled hosting repaints for their 777.

From the Flightsim.To press release. CS is still claiming they can outright steal others work and rehost it on their own distribution channel. If you need any more proof how un-sorry he really is. It's right here

From CS himself.. Yep. They will steal your repaints and not give you credit. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by styckx