Update day

[abrams_tank 7,659]

48 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

There are a couple points to be made here, which makes this a complex issue, and I think some of y'all may be talking past each other a little bit.

First, @virtuali's technical description is 100% correct regarding the VFS, and the way in which mods can affect the game.

Second, @cobalt is also correct, more practically, that cleaning out your community folder for an update likely doesn't actually prevent any problems with the game itself.   To that effect, the rote repetition in the release announcements and the folks who echo it can sound a bit cargo-culty.

But what also needs to be taken into account is the human element.  Because what can, and often does, happen is that mods are not compatible with an update, and they cause people an issue.   Then, because troubleshooting is a skill that does not come naturally to many people, they say "the update broke my game", when in fact it's actually the mod breaking the game.

But, as they say, a lie (or innocent misconception) often makes it around the world before the truth gets its shoes on.  Just having that report both causes other people concern, and can make trouble for developers on both sides of the game/mod line as they're obligated to look at reports of breakage even when it's not clear where it came from.

For that reason, I feel like the "please clear out your community folder" reminder is a bit of preventative medicine, in that people who do that will have an opportunity to test the base game, and validate that it works, before laying their mash of mods on top and finding something broken.   Is it strictly needed?  No.   Does it save a lot of people a lot of trouble and time?  Quite possibly.

For what it's worth, I use Addons Linker to disable all my mods the first time I launch a new update and sanity check everything.  Then I gradually layer my add-ons on top so I can tell what step of the process broke something.  I think it's a practice people could do well to follow, but everyone has their own level of patience and tolerance for problems.

Hi, since you are directly working on the game now, you probably know 100x more than any of us how it works. Sometimes, an add-on in the Community folder will stop the game from loading into the menu screen (ie. Blackbox who streams on Twitch encountered this before).  Removing such an add-on can allow the game to load into the menu screen.

My question is, after a patch, when MSFS first loads, is there any initialization done by MSFS?  If MSFS does some initialization on the loading screen after a patch, then any interruption of the first load (and therefore any interruption of the first initialization) can result in a corrupted MSFS, if the initialization is not mean to be interrupted.  If there is any initialization at the loading screen, I assume that any initialization that is done at the loading screen after a patch can be overwritten if MSFS is rebooted from scratch, which means a failed initialization cannot corrupt MSFS.

But if there is an initialization on the first load after a patch, and that initialization is not meant to be interrupted, I can see how a Community add-on that interrupts the loading screen and interrupts the first initialization, can corrupt MSFS.  Anyways, I think you know better than me how MSFS works so if you can share your insight on this, that would be great!  Thanks!

Edited June 17, 2021 by abrams_tank

[kaosfere 3,115]

32 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Hi, since you are directly working on the game now, you probably know 100x more than any of us how it works.

Hehe.   I didn't become an instant expert, and of course there's some stuff I can't reveal, but if nothing else I can eventually find the answers to most questions on my own now.

 

32 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Sometimes, an add-on in the Community folder will stop the game from loading into the menu screen (ie. Blackbox who streams on Twitch encountered this before).  Removing such an add-on can allow the game to load into the menu screen.

Right, so, to start with before getting to the main thrust of your question...  I've not studied the precise details of the game initialization, but I know from my own experimentation that there are two phases of startup (at least) that can cause issues.   One is when the sim "phones home" with telemetry about what you have installed;  at one point in the past I had a malformed manifest file which was causing an endless loop at that phase.   I reported it and I think it's since been fixed.

The next thing to consider is that the game actually loads whatever your "current" plane is before you even start a flight, so if you have something which is broken selected as your current plane it can cause problems where you can't even get to the configuration menu to change the plane.

Both of these things have bitten me at least once.  😄

Now...

 

35 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

My question is, after a patch, when MSFS first loads, is there any initialization done by MSFS?  If MSFS does some initialization on the loading screen after a patch, then any interruption of the first load (and therefore any interruption of the first initialization) can result in a corrupted MSFS, if the initialization is not mean to be interrupted.

This one I can't definitively answer without some research.   My intuition based on what I've seen is that this isn't something that happens, but I try to always make it plain when I'm not remotely certain of something and this is one of those times.  🙂   I'm curious myself, though, so I can try to find out.   Obviously I can't commit to a definitive response but I'll investigate if only to sate my own curiosity and share what I can when I can.    Hope that helps.

 

[blueshark747 1,894]

I'm about 30+ addons deep in my untouched community folder and never an issue with WUs, never a stall nor CTD since MSFS release.

Update patcher just finished I'll report back later.

Anywhere in particular I should fly from scenery eye candy wise?

I have no experience nor familiarity with Nordic countries.

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by blueshark747

[jarmstro 2,418]

OMG!! The sim is running so well! It's the best £59 I've ever spent. (Apart from the wife's wedding ring.)

Edited June 17, 2021 by jarmstro

[abrams_tank 7,659]

16 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

Hehe.   I didn't become an instant expert, and of course there's some stuff I can't reveal, but if nothing else I can eventually find the answers to most questions on my own now.

 

Right, so, to start with before getting to the main thrust of your question...  I've not studied the precise details of the game initialization, but I know from my own experimentation that there are two phases of startup (at least) that can cause issues.   One is when the sim "phones home" with telemetry about what you have installed;  at one point in the past I had a malformed manifest file which was causing an endless loop at that phase.   I reported it and I think it's since been fixed.

The next thing to consider is that the game actually loads whatever your "current" plane is before you even start a flight, so if you have something which is broken selected as your current plane it can cause problems where you can't even get to the configuration menu to change the plane.

Both of these things have bitten me at least once.  😄

Now...

 

This one I can't definitively answer without some research.   My intuition based on what I've seen is that this isn't something that happens, but I try to always make it plain when I'm not remotely certain of something and this is one of those times.  🙂   I'm curious myself, though, so I can try to find out.   Obviously I can't commit to a definitive response but I'll investigate if only to sate my own curiosity and share what I can when I can.    Hope that helps.

 

Oh cool, I’m just a little curious.  If you can’t find anything out that’s cool too.  Theoretically, if any first initialization after a patch is reversible (ie. the initialization can start from scratch on a reboot of MSFS), then nothing in the Community folder can corrupt MSFS (or put MSFS in a corrupted state).

If there is any initialization, my guess is Asobo structured the initialization in a way so that it’s reversible (or it can be overwritten) so that the initialization is never in a state where it is stuck.

 

[crimplene 634]

Actually I see a lot of arguing here but no real disagreement.