msfs MD-11 LH Cargo landing at Munich ( EDDM )

[Phantom88 3,290]

Brilliant!!

[Stiller Water 264]

Good looking plane and cockpit, PMP. And it is the first time I recognize a MD-11 in Munich, will have to look for the cargo terminal next time I am there...

[pmplayer 9,836]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:35 PM, edetroit said:

The angle of your horizontal stabiliser is.......scary.

Yea, you right, looking scary , but AP was on, so seems AP relaeted.. ( or some finetuning with the flight model file has to be done ).

Also the CoG was around the middle so this should normaly not the problem .

It seems you mostly have a apporach speed around 169 to 173 what i seeing here, maybe something is not optimised , but works more ore less fine like this.

cheers 😉

[G550flyer 1,074]

@pmplayer and anyone else interested. I have made an initial adjustment to the flight model. My change has captured the behavior of the aircraft in landing configurations(35 and 50) and during the flare. Basically, the 35 and 50 flap position has increased lift so that you are seeing just below 5 degrees deck angle with flaps 35 and just below 4 degrees deck angle with flaps 50 at VREF + 5(speed chart). The ground effect has been adjusted so that the text book flare can be applied during landing. The technique is to start your flare at 10% of your gross weight. So if you are at 430,000 pounds, start your flare at 43FT or just prior to the 40FT call out. Add your 2 to 3 degree pitch change and hold it until she touches down. An advanced technique is to decrease that 2 to 3 degree pitch change by 1 degree just prior to touch down. I guess the 1 degree reduction just prior to touch down raises the main gear slightly resulting in a softer touch down. The DC10 and MD11 lands firmly following text book flares. Now, there is an issue I'll bring up and maybe some of you will have a solution. I am also reaching out to sky sim.

The issue with this change is that the stall warning erroneously triggers at times when slowing to approach. I found that it triggered during rotation before I made any adjustments. You will also see that during approach, you are in the red band of the speed tape when flying charted min maneuver and approach speeds. Outside of contact with skysim, does anyone know how to adjust this? I'm afraid it must be done in the gauge itself, which is past my programming skill level if I have programming skills at all🤣. Here's a good example of this. flaps 22(DC10) and flaps 28(MD11) are the maneuvering flaps. Typically you will fly 180kts or min man, which ever higher, while maneuvering for the approach/VFR pattern. This keeps you moving and gets you accustomed to those 180 til the marker requests from ATC. At 430K and flaps 28, the min man is 155KTS. If I fly 180kts, the speed tape puts me in the red as if I am slow. Next I will start looking at flaps 28 to ensure it has the proper pitch while level at min man.

Rick 

[Jack_Sawyer 4,628]

Very good Rick, you put a lot of work into this, it's excellent information.  Thanks.

[G550flyer 1,074]

29 minutes ago, Jack_Sawyer said:

Very good Rick, you put a lot of work into this, it's excellent information.  Thanks.

Thanks! We are missing tri jets in FS2020 and this is not bad as long as it behaves right and can follow a flight plan.

[pmplayer 9,836]

1 hour ago, G550flyer said:

Thanks! We are missing tri jets in FS2020 and this is not bad as long as it behaves right and can follow a flight plan.

You right, can`t wait for a good DC-10 and hopefully a useable Lookheed Tristar find it`s way someday to MSFS 2020 !!

cheers 😉

[andy1252 4,117]

Lovely set of shots and a great looking aircraft, @pmplayer

I have a question though. I've seen this on sale but dismissed it as it's a bit pricey and so I assume it's one of those dreaded "study level" things that I'd have to learn all the buttons and procedures for. I have zero interest in doing that, but might get this if it turns up on a deal sometime but only if I can actually fly it in a very basic way - essentially ctrl-e and a runway hot start and then just the usual control surfaces to deal with.

So does it need some serious piloting? Or would it be usable for a totally non-serious pilot type like me? I've found stuff like the PMDG 737s perfectly workable for my style of simming, but I have bought a couple of things that insist I play pretend pilot before they'll even start up (so I booted them off my system - not interested).

But I do like my airplanes, and if this would work for me I may well get it.

 

[pmplayer 9,836]

10 hours ago, andy1252 said:

Lovely set of shots and a great looking aircraft, @pmplayer

I have a question though. I've seen this on sale but dismissed it as it's a bit pricey and so I assume it's one of those dreaded "study level" things that I'd have to learn all the buttons and procedures for. I have zero interest in doing that, but might get this if it turns up on a deal sometime but only if I can actually fly it in a very basic way - essentially ctrl-e and a runway hot start and then just the usual control surfaces to deal with.

So does it need some serious piloting? Or would it be usable for a totally non-serious pilot type like me? I've found stuff like the PMDG 737s perfectly workable for my style of simming, but I have bought a couple of things that insist I play pretend pilot before they'll even start up (so I booted them off my system - not interested).

But I do like my airplanes, and if this would work for me I may well get it.

 

Thank you !

All this is of course a matter of opinion, especially here in the Avsim forum..

Here's my point of view:

First, i like most to fly liners and I love the old trijets in particular. I wouldn't call this add-on a study level (whatever that means) but it's not that far off and has a very good potential ( if some small bugs are still gets fixed from the Dev's ).

Of course every sim add on has its learning curve, so does this MD-11, everything has to be figured out how it works first, but if you've learned the PMDG 737 you can do the MD-11 too. And of course these two planes are totally different, but you will get it if the interesst is there..

I did,  so you can do it aswell i would say.

I love this MD-11, doeing a lot of longhaul flights those days and if you fly a lot with your favorite Airplane you learn it.

As the saying goes: Learning by doing, that's the best way..

cheers 😉

Edited January 14, 2023 by pmplayer

[andy1252 4,117]

53 minutes ago, pmplayer said:

every sim add on has its learning curve, so does this MD-11, everything has to be figured out how it works first, but if you've learned the PMDG 737 you can do the MD-11 too. And of course these two planes are totally different, but you will get it if the interesst is there..

Hi @pmplayer, and thanks for the info.

I'll possibly pass on this aircraft until I either weaken sufficiently or it appears in a big sale some time. It is a plane I'm interested in - I like a lot of these older style aircraft - but not in the sense of being intereseted in how to fly it. I've never learned how to actually fly anything in any of the sims. All I want to do is hit ctrl-e or whatever and then get in the air. That's all I do with the PMDG stuff and it works for me. Only possible exception is the various helicopters - those I can't use unless I learn a bit about flying them, but the process of doing so is not a pleasure for me, rather more a nuisance. If I could get really smooth operation out of the drone cam (it needs a purpose built controller to be really controllable) there are plenty of times I'd be happy in this sim without actually using an aircraft.

I do have a large number of aircraft (50? 60? more?), of all sorts. and love to see them in the sim. But that's the thing for me, I love to SEE them, rather than FLY them. I'll mostly do a flight (all by hand, no planning or anything) by simply taking off from somewhere that interests me and flying in whatever direction appeals until I see somewhere interesting (via Little Nav Map) to aim for and land. I'll be recording the flight, and will mostly stay reluctantly in the cockpit while doing the flight just to make sure it doesn't go wobbling off somewhere out of control. Once I've either landed or simply given up and exited the flight, and saved the recording, I can then replay it and that's where the real interest lies for me. I can move around at my leisure using the various camera views, and will pretty much spend all my time outside the aircraft panning around and taking screenies. I can change the weather, time and anything else, and I can pause and go down and examine any interesting looking scenery up close via the drone cam. Using a big tube aircraft is the least interesting option for me, apart from at the airport at either end, as there's really nothing to look at outside way up high. Mind you, in my universe a 737  or an A318 is a perfectly acceptable aircraft to fly around at about 1000 ft. That way I get to see an aircraft I like as well as some scenery!

Like you say - it takes all sorts!

[pmplayer 9,836]

1 hour ago, andy1252 said:

Hi @pmplayer, and thanks for the info.

I'll possibly pass on this aircraft until I either weaken sufficiently or it appears in a big sale some time. It is a plane I'm interested in - I like a lot of these older style aircraft - but not in the sense of being intereseted in how to fly it. I've never learned how to actually fly anything in any of the sims. All I want to do is hit ctrl-e or whatever and then get in the air. That's all I do with the PMDG stuff and it works for me. Only possible exception is the various helicopters - those I can't use unless I learn a bit about flying them, but the process of doing so is not a pleasure for me, rather more a nuisance. If I could get really smooth operation out of the drone cam (it needs a purpose built controller to be really controllable) there are plenty of times I'd be happy in this sim without actually using an aircraft.

I do have a large number of aircraft (50? 60? more?), of all sorts. and love to see them in the sim. But that's the thing for me, I love to SEE them, rather than FLY them. I'll mostly do a flight (all by hand, no planning or anything) by simply taking off from somewhere that interests me and flying in whatever direction appeals until I see somewhere interesting (via Little Nav Map) to aim for and land. I'll be recording the flight, and will mostly stay reluctantly in the cockpit while doing the flight just to make sure it doesn't go wobbling off somewhere out of control. Once I've either landed or simply given up and exited the flight, and saved the recording, I can then replay it and that's where the real interest lies for me. I can move around at my leisure using the various camera views, and will pretty much spend all my time outside the aircraft panning around and taking screenies. I can change the weather, time and anything else, and I can pause and go down and examine any interesting looking scenery up close via the drone cam. Using a big tube aircraft is the least interesting option for me, apart from at the airport at either end, as there's really nothing to look at outside way up high. Mind you, in my universe a 737  or an A318 is a perfectly acceptable aircraft to fly around at about 1000 ft. That way I get to see an aircraft I like as well as some scenery!

Like you say - it takes all sorts!

That's OK for me, to each their own.. I would say I'm more the opposite of you to put it in a few words..

But you nailed it  - it takes all sorts ! 😇

cheers 😉

[G550flyer 1,074]

Greetings All,

I have made some gains with editing the flight model. The aircraft closely tracks the behavior one would expect from the MD11 during landing. There is still  one small problem that I have and I hope that one of you might be able to fix it or give direction. The flaps 28 position had the nose a bit high when level. I used the unreliable airspeed section of the MD11 manual to nail down the pitch I would see when at 450,000 at a specific speed. It was a 4 degree deck angle. My flaps 28 adjustment put the aircraft just above the red tape when flying 180kts. This is good because the aircraft will now slow to 180 with the ATS system controlling speed. The problem is that flaps 35 and 50 is now in the red tape. This means that the ATS system will not slow to REF + 5. That intern means that you can't use the AP when at REF + 5. If you know how to adjust the tape or totally edit it out, let me know. The aircraft flies pretty descent and will be awesome without the red tape issue. The automation is just a tad quirky since from time to time to have to engage selected speed/altitude twice to get it to take. In all, the automation is better than what I had in the DC10. O, yeah, the fuel flow is hilarious. The engines are running 350 pounds per hour when it should be 1500 pounds per hour. I will adjust to tighten that up.

[G550flyer 1,074]

22 hours ago, G550flyer said:

Greetings All,

I have made some gains with editing the flight model. The aircraft closely tracks the behavior one would expect from the MD11 during landing. There is still  one small problem that I have and I hope that one of you might be able to fix it or give direction. The flaps 28 position had the nose a bit high when level. I used the unreliable airspeed section of the MD11 manual to nail down the pitch I would see when at 450,000 at a specific speed. It was a 4 degree deck angle. My flaps 28 adjustment put the aircraft just above the red tape when flying 180kts. This is good because the aircraft will now slow to 180 with the ATS system controlling speed. The problem is that flaps 35 and 50 is now in the red tape. This means that the ATS system will not slow to REF + 5. That intern means that you can't use the AP when at REF + 5. If you know how to adjust the tape or totally edit it out, let me know. The aircraft flies pretty descent and will be awesome without the red tape issue. The automation is just a tad quirky since from time to time to have to engage selected speed/altitude twice to get it to take. In all, the automation is better than what I had in the DC10. O, yeah, the fuel flow is hilarious. The engines are running 350 pounds per hour when it should be 1500 pounds per hour. I will adjust to tighten that up.

Dang, my grammar can be atrocious when in a rush🤣. I meant "internally" and "decent". I need to proof read the way I talk on the radio. Say it/read it three times in your mind and key the mic/hit submit as you say it/read it the fourth time🤣.