Beginning to think this is a waste of time...

[rocketlaunch 648]

What utter rubbish, of course liquid cooling is more efficient then air cooling. Liquid (water) has a higher thermal conductivity than just "air". Liquid coolers also do a much better job of dumping the heat outside of your case. 

[jarmstro 2,419]

3 minutes ago, rocketlaunch said:

What utter rubbish, of course liquid cooling is more efficient then air cooling. Liquid (water) has a higher thermal conductivity than just "air". Liquid coolers also do a much better job of dumping the heat outside of your case. 

I don't agree. It depends on the size of the aluminium finned heat exchanger and the airflow through it.  Liquid cooling sounds 'cool' but it's not as effective. I'm not saying it doesn't work. I am saying that it's unnecessary and less effective.

[rocketlaunch 648]

14 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I don't agree

You can't argue with physics I am afraid. 

[turbomax 3,458]

6 hours ago, Jazz said:

I laugh when I read falsehoods like this.

 

[jarmstro 2,419]

30 minutes ago, Kyuss said:

Lol wut? You ever take a bath or go swimming? Ever notice how 20°C air feels comfortable but 20°C water feels cool?

 

So let me get this straight, it's better to heat water up first then cool it with air in an aluminium heat exchanger than using the heat exchanger directly on the chip? As I said, the pretty lights are lovely though.

I accept that given a huge radiator more heat exchange could take place albeit more slowly but that isn't what we are talking about. The surface area of a WC cooler is no greater than a large aluminium cooler placed directly on the chip?

Edited January 21, 2023 by jarmstro

[Jazz 1,047]

Just now, jarmstro said:

So let me get this straight, it's better to heat water up first then cool it with air in an aluminium heat exchanger than using the heat exchanger directly on the chip? As I said, the pretty lights are lovely though.

Yes, it is. Providing you want cooler case temps for everything else in there and a lower average CPU temps over a sustained heavy use period and a quieter room.

If that isn't what you want then no, it isn't.

[jarmstro 2,419]

3 minutes ago, Jazz said:

Yes, it is. Providing you want cooler case temps for everything else in there and a lower average CPU temps over a sustained heavy use period and a quieter room.

If that isn't what you want then no, it isn't.

Well yes. That's a fair point. The heat is exhausted out of the case with water cooling. 

[DD_Arthur 1,184]

13 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

So let me get this straight, it's better to heat water up first then cool it with air in an aluminium heat exchanger than using the heat exchanger directly on the chip? 

Ever driven a car with an air cooled engine?

[jarmstro 2,419]

2 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Ever driven a car with an air cooled engine?

Yes. A Porsche. Though comaparing a combustion engine to a cpu is ridiculous.

Edited January 21, 2023 by jarmstro

[SpaceForceCapt 35]

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

Yes, but did he clean the CPU, and apply new thermal paste with the replacement cooler? Did he fit the heatsink properly? These need to be checked, as an improperly fitted heatsink with poor thermal paste application could make a massive difference to the temperature of the CPU. This was the part that made me a touch paranoid when I was building my first ever PC three years ago

I only replaced the stock CPU fan.  I was leery about messing with the CPU and thermal paste, so I didn't touch the stock heat sink (which is probably not a great one).

I think at this point, my best option is to just open the side of the case when simming.  My other main uses for this PC are internet, basic productivity type things, and photo processing and editing.  My CPU temps seems reasonable when doing those things, it's just MSFS that sends it into a tizzy.  It looks like HP did away with OC control in their gaming hub software, so I don't know how turn try and underclock, or turn off the boosting.  My CPU is running around 4.3 Ghz right now, and it stays that way just about all the time, even though it's base speed is 3.2.  I could probably go into windows power settings and set the max processor state to a lower percent than 100, but not sure if that would cause me performance issues when running day to day tasks.

I could also turn off hyperthreading, like someone mentioned, but not sure if that's an optimal solution, either.  Eventually, I'll get a better rig (probably not HP again), but not worth it right now.  I don't even use MSFS all that often.

[lzamm 153]

8 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

So let me get this straight, it's better to heat water up....

Yes.  The specific heat of water is much higher than that of air, and so will rise in temperature much less (mass for mass, and even more so volume for volume) when carrying the same amount of heat.  Heat flow is driven by temperature difference and the air quickly warms up as it travels along the fins, reducing the effectiveness of the heat transfer and requiring multiple, very large fins.  Compare the frontal area of a Spitfire with the liquid-cooled Merlin (radiators and all) with that of an equivalent air-cooled radial-engined fighter such as the Wildcat.

The responsiveness of water-cooled systems to changes in heat production is also superior to air-cooling because of the thermal capacity of the liquid.  Thermal conductivity has very little to do with it as the flow over the fins is turbulent, which distributes the heat much more effectively than conduction.

Both air and liquid cooling can be made equally efficient and effective, and the choice is mostly dictated by the application.   Liquid cooling has the advantage of small size while air cooling is cheaper, simpler and potentially more reliable.  The main advantage of liquid cooling for computers, in my opinion, is that you don't hang a couple of pounds of metal on the motherboard, and the heat can be dumped outside the case rather than warming up your RAM and SSD's.

[Bobsk8 13,214]

46 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

So let me get this straight, it's better to heat water up first then cool it with air in an aluminium heat exchanger than using the heat exchanger directly on the chip? As I said, the pretty lights are lovely though.

I accept that given a huge radiator more heat exchange could take place albeit more slowly but that isn't what we are talking about. The surface area of a WC cooler is no greater than a large aluminium cooler placed directly on the chip?

https://www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/articles/hardware/liquid-vs-air-cooling-pc.html#:~:text=Possible problems and maintenance.,could result in component damage.

[DD_Arthur 1,184]

38 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Yes. A Porsche. Though comaparing a combustion engine to a cpu is ridiculous.

Lol. I forgot about them! 

[pmplayer 10,017]

1 hour ago, rocketlaunch said:

You can't argue with physics I am afraid. 

It is only more effektive in the first 15 mins after that there is not mutch difference.

So water cooling is totally overrated.

You can read it everywhere..

cheers 😉

 

[bigifooti 177]

56 minutes ago, SpaceForceCapt said:

I only replaced the stock CPU fan.  I was leery about messing with the CPU and thermal paste, so I didn't touch the stock heat sink (which is probably not a great one).

I think at this point, my best option is to just open the side of the case when simming.  My other main uses for this PC are internet, basic productivity type things, and photo processing and editing.  My CPU temps seems reasonable when doing those things, it's just MSFS that sends it into a tizzy.  It looks like HP did away with OC control in their gaming hub software, so I don't know how turn try and underclock, or turn off the boosting.  My CPU is running around 4.3 Ghz right now, and it stays that way just about all the time, even though it's base speed is 3.2.  I could probably go into windows power settings and set the max processor state to a lower percent than 100, but not sure if that would cause me performance issues when running day to day tasks.

I could also turn off hyperthreading, like someone mentioned, but not sure if that's an optimal solution, either.  Eventually, I'll get a better rig (probably not HP again), but not worth it right now.  I don't even use MSFS all that often.

Ah, I thought you changed out the whole cooler. A Noctua fan does add a little better airflow and is obviously quieter, but i think the CPU really would benefit from a better cooler. 

Maybe first start with Fan Control. You should be able to ramp up the Fans earlier. https://getfancontrol.com/  Also try to get that case fan to speed up. 

And indeed run your PC with the side panel open or even removed completely. On the internet you read everywhere that the Case HP used doesn't help in any way with airflow. 

 

Next would be to get a CPU cooler upgrade. It might look intimidating to change it out, but it really isn't. There's plenty on youtube to help you out. 

Any cooler that isn't too tall will work. I could find any specs on the Omen case, but because the case is quite slim, I guess you shouldn't go taller than 140mm for a cooler height, and it should fit on a 1151 socket. 

I'm not sure where you are located, but this one will do the trick without breaking the bank; 

https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/1666636/be-quiet-pure-rock-slim-2.html or https://www.microcenter.com/product/640534/be-quiet-pure-rock-slim-2-cpu-cooler

When you buy a new cooler check if it comes with thermal paste. You need that as well. You don't need any fancy thermal paste, saw some for 7 dollars.

 

If you want to go a step further (as in a next step), you could be looking into also buying a new case (100usd range are some very nice cases already). Might be a nice start of building your own system  (be aware, it is a rabit hole... because there is always something new or to improve... 😋).