Troubling...

[Ray Proudfoot 9,165]

I still park my 17 year-old Honda Civic EX in my garage. There’s just enough room to get in and out. My annual mileage is 1500-2000 miles. It has 30,000 on the clock. It’s worth around 2000GBP.

To buy a hybrid or full electric would cost me a minimum of 20-25,000 GBP. I could just about afford it but won’t consider one for the following reasons:-

1) My annual mileage is so low switching to a non-petrol car would make little difference to the environment.

2) I’ve driven manual gearbox cars for 49 years. Switching to an automatic would be alien and unenjoyable.

3) A second-hand EV will depreciate faster than burning bank notes. They’re so new there really isn’t a decent second-hand market yet. And who would buy one knowing a replacement battery will cost thousands.

And what happens to the old battery? What about the weight and size of these cars. They’re all huge and unsuitable for our roads. Would multi-storey car parks be safe?

I’ll be keeping my Civic for as long as I can. Any repairs would be far cheaper than buying a new EV / Hybrid.

[martin-w 3,315]

18 hours ago, charliearon said:

Would that be a drive way for us non-Brits?

 

Yep. 

[martin-w 3,315]

17 hours ago, charliearon said:

Unfortunately, here people have multiple cars and most houses have a single car garage (like mine).  People think the
garage is for storing their junk, so they all park on the street.  Makes it tough for 2 way traffic to go by. 

 

Yep, most in the UK use their garages for storage. My last house had a single car garage replete with weight training gear, a Pec Deck, Lat Machine and plenty of dumbbells'. 😁 Not to mention my lawn mower and some tools.  One of my houses in the UK had a driveway big enough for 7 cars at a push. As Reader said, your drive way is your own property and included in your plot of land. 

 

A posh example...

 

 

 

Edited June 28 by martin-w

[DD_Arthur 1,129]

59 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

3) A second-hand EV will depreciate faster than burning bank notes. They’re so new there really isn’t a decent second-hand market yet. And who would buy one knowing a replacement battery will cost thousands.

And what happens to the old battery? What about the weight and size of these cars. They’re all huge and unsuitable for our roads. Would multi-storey car parks be safe?

I’ll be keeping my Civic for as long as I can. Any repairs would be far cheaper than buying a new EV / Hybrid.

This whole push for EV has become ludicrous.

Everyone I know who has an electric car can relate stories of absurd, anxiety fuelled journeys that are dominated by the hunt for charging points.

I live in a quiet, rural village and we park on-street outside our terraced houses. We were recently woken in the early hours by an altercation between our next door neighbour and a drunk bloke who had tripped over the charging cable to our neighbours Tesla and proceeded to make a determined effort to rip the whole unit off the wall of the house.

Since I’m lucky enough to live in a part of the country where crime is essentially non existent I can’t help thinking this is just a taste of things to come in urban areas.

As to how we’re going to dispose of a million battery sets a year doesn’t really bare thinking about.

Also, fuel duty currently raises over twenty five billion a year for HM treasury. How’s that going to be replaced.

The whole thing is an exercise in blue sky thinking on the back of a fag packet…..

 

[martin-w 3,315]

24 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Everyone I know who has an electric car can relate stories of absurd, anxiety fuelled journeys that are dominated by the hunt for charging points.

 

Three of my neighbors in the UK, that were friends, had no such issues. One had a Model X, one a Model S and one a Jaguar iPace. Most recharge at home, over night, while asleep, on cheap rate power. Tesla cars tell you where the nearest charger is and how many charge points are in use and how many free. 90% in the UK say they would never go back to ICE. Tesla have agreements now with other car manufactures so that with an adapter, they can use the excellent Tesla charging network. Its not perfect, for sure, but not the exaggerated issue the anti-EV crowd claim. There are so many myths.

 

24 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

I live in a quiet, rural village and we park on-street outside our terraced houses. We were recently woken in the early hours by an altercation between our next door neighbour and a drunk bloke who had tripped over the charging cable to our neighbours Tesla and proceeded to make a determined effort to rip the whole unit off the wall of the house

 

Charging cables across pavement are a bit of a grey area. Technically its legal but the councils do have the right to remove anything that's a trip hazard. There are charge points now being installed in lamp posts and units by the side of the road. As I mentioned earlier though, not having a driveway to park your car on is one reason an EV isn't adopted and one reason 10% switch back to petrol power. 

 

24 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

As to how we’re going to dispose of a million battery sets a year doesn’t really bare thinking about.

 

Currently batteries are lasting between 100,000 and 400,000 miles, and after their life in a car they go on to become "second life batteries" for use in grid storage and home storage. In addition, there are recycling stipulations. From 2027 European cars batteries will be required to have 90% of the materials recovered. 

As I said, there are many myths.

 

https://fullycharged.show/blog/lies-damned-lies-statistics-debunking-electric-car-myths/

 

 

Quote

 

4 – BATTERIES END UP AS LANDFILL

And the real reasons that batteries are a threat? Well first of all, those that say the batteries won’t last and that they contribute to environmental waste are, appropriately enough, talking rubbish (garbage). The terrifying reality for combustion engine manufacturers is that electric batteries are lasting much, much longer than bad actors like Clarkson predicted over a decade ago. Sure the mk1 Nissan LEAF has a poor reputation for battery degradation, but there are numerous electric cars (not least Teslas) running around on 300k+ miles. Secondly, unlike the fossil fuels that we burn, after their first life in cars, they can then have an even longer second life (e.g. in buildings), before being almost entirely recycled. So whichever way you slice it the environmental impact of batteries, as opposed to the impact of combustion engine vehicles is definitely the lesser of two evils.

 

 

 

Edited June 28 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,315]

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

And who would buy one knowing a replacement battery will cost thousands.

 

Typically they are warranted for a decade. What we do know is that they are lasting a very long time on the original battery. 300,000 or 400,000 miles isn't uncommon. 

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

They’re all huge and unsuitable for our roads.

 

Nope Ray, plenty of small ones... BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, Honda E, VW ID.3. VW ID.4, VW ID. 7, Fiat 500E, Fiat  Abarth 500e. Plenty of medium size ones... BMW i4, Tesla Model Y, Tesla model 3.  All sizes and ranges to choose from. 

 

 

Edited June 28 by martin-w

[Ray Proudfoot 9,165]

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

Also, fuel duty currently raises over twenty five billion a year for HM treasury. How’s that going to be replaced.

The whole thing is an exercise in blue sky thinking on the back of a fag packet…..

I suspect road pricing will come in. The advantage of that is overseas vehicles will pay and if you only drive a few thousand miles you could end up paying less than the RFL.

24 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Typically they are warranted for a decade. What we do know is that they are lasting a very long time on the original battery. 300,000 or 400,000 miles isn't uncommon.

Nope Ray, plenty of small ones... BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, Honda E, VW ID.3. VW ID.4, VW ID. 7, Fiat 500E, Fiat  Abarth 500e. Plenty of medium size ones... BMW i4, Tesla Model Y, Tesla model 3.  All sizes and ranges to choose from.

I don't know anyone who has bought a second-hand EV or hybrid.

Smaller cars = smaller batteries = less range.

[G-RFRY 1,765]

Car Wow tested 6 new EVs up the M1 till running out not one achieved the manufacturers range advertised. some as low as 80% only. At Leicester services not one charger in operation all covered not enough power in the grid to power them and the services after nearly two years. Tyres wear faster and more expensive and do more road damage some EVs weigh two tons, and the goverments are going to bring in road tax on EVs next year and reduce subsidies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz4qnwNKxt4&pp=ygUKY2Fyd293IGV2cw%3D%3D

Around me there are houses with 4 to 5 car ownership most park on the street or on the paved over front garden which makes flooding worse.

 

Edited June 28 by G-RFRY

[charliearon 3,145]

I'm waiting for Toyota to come out with their long range battery.  They were touting 600 mile range.  Things will get better
in the next few years!  I'm just getting ready for my 2014 Forester to have it's 60K checkup this next week!

[birdguy 3,994]

My 2019 Toyota Prius will last me the rest of my life.  It's light enough it doesn't tear up the highways or streets like heavier vehicles do.  I refueled last last week and calculating the mileage at the pump I got 51MPG.  That drops to between 45 and 48MPG in winter when it's colder.   I refuel about 3 times a year and it takes between 7 and 8 gallons of gasoline at each fillup.

Granted I don't drive much anymore.  I just drive around town to go shopping or to doctor appointments.  Every couple of months or so I take it out on the highway and drive 20 miles out and twenty miles back at the posted speed limit of 70MPH just to do it.

I would not trade it for either an ICE or an EV.

There are a lot more hybrid models on the market now.  A nice transition compromise for those reluctant to give up the ICE for the EV.

I guess in the old days of the Stanley Steamer and the ICEs emerging on the market caused a lot of arguments.  The ICE won out and with emission and range improvements carried us through  to today.

Many of us remember spending Saturdays tuning our engines cleaning and regapping plugs, installing new points and sometimes even adding a new carburetor kit.  Then adjusting the timing with a timing light.   We used change oil in the driveway too and dump the old oil down the sewer.  My generation's contribution to the air and water pollution we are still cleaning up today.  Those days are gone forever along with manual transmissions.

I expect my great grandkids might be debating replacing old technology EV electric power guzzlers with the latest air cushion cars powered directly by sunlight.

Tempus Fugit

Noel

 

 

[W2DR 1,867]

On 6/26/2024 at 7:54 PM, dave2013 said:

American houses are another good example of typically low quality and poor workmanship.

It's not just "nowadays". We bought a 5000 sq. ft. "McMansion" a few miles north of Atlanta back in 1992. We had numerous problems with the house over the next 10 years. It finally got to the point where all the windows (43 of them) had to be replaced, the basement had numerous cracks in the walls,  the downstairs floor joists needed reinforcing, and the roof had to be replaced. The bill for all of that? A mere USD $208,000. No way I was going to get into that. Time to move on. We love our home in Florida.

[dave2013 1,177]

On 6/27/2024 at 12:12 PM, Reader said:

Both only move the problems about, they do not solve anything at all.

Exactly. 

A common theme applies here: you can't get something for nothing.  This goes for energy, but also applies to many other things like borrowing and printing money.  You borrow and/or print trillions and spend it and prices go up, unless you're in a depression, which of course we're not.  It's amazing to me that many people can't seem to grasp this simple concept.  Nothing is free.

Fortunately a lot of people are waking up from their slumber with fantasy-filled dreams and beginning to realize that all these utopian promises will likely never materialize.  Perhaps in 50-100 years, but not in my lifetime.

I'm traveling right now in the heartland(Missouri and Iowa) and I look around at all the big tractor trailer trucks and big farm equipment and wonder what will happen if certain agendas and policies come to fruition.

Dave

[dave2013 1,177]

On 6/27/2024 at 1:05 PM, charliearon said:

People think the
garage is for storing their junk, so they all park on the street.

LOL.  Yep, we see that all the time - garages packed with stuff and the cars parked outside.

Dave

[dave2013 1,177]

9 hours ago, martin-w said:

Typically they are warranted for a decade. What we do know is that they are lasting a very long time on the original battery. 300,000 or 400,000 miles isn't uncommon. 

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that.  I'm saying that your sources are dishonest, not you.

Everyone uses lithium-ion batteries for stuff nowadays and everyone knows from experience that these things degrade especially if they are charged/discharged a lot.  I'd like to see one last 10 years and still have even 50% of its original capacity.

Anyway, people will make their purchase decisions based on their own experiences and those of others.  There's a lot of negative aspects of EVs that are being revealed now that many people have bought them.

Dave

[Ray Proudfoot 9,165]

Reading today’s Daily Telegraph I’ve just seen this story. It’s not the first and it won’t be the last…

AN NFL star and his family have survived a house fire that was apparently started by a Tesla charger in their garage.

Randall Cobb, 33, escaped from the blaze along with his wife, Aiyda, and three sons, Cade, Caspian and Chance – and even returned to save their pet dog. No one from the family was injured but the fire caused extensive damage to the property in Nashville, Tennessee.