Better than a Model 3?

[martin-w 3,315]

 

[Lucky38i 1,234]

I sat in one the other day as-well as the Atto 3. It genuinely is a really nice interior. Didn't get to do a test drive but the suspension was a lot softer than you'd find on the model 3 (entirely subjective). It is seriously quite gorgeous as a car though. The most recent infotainment update has gotten rid of alot of the annoying issues with the ADAS, so definetely a good contender to compete with the M3

[martin-w 3,315]

1 hour ago, Lucky38i said:

It is seriously quite gorgeous as a car though.

 

I like the way they refrain from "reinventing the wheel" changing things that work and have always worked. Tesla's dodgy decisions like no stalks, indicator buttons on the steering wheel, swiping a screen for drive and reverse and no display directly in front of the driver compromises the operation, in my opinion.

Edited July 1 by martin-w

[W2DR 1,867]

Yawn. I'll take my Toyota hybrid over any EV.

[Daube 384]

It's a nice car, but the problem with Chinese cars is that they often lack the "one pedal" driving mode.

For those who ignore what this is, this is basically a strong engine brake that happens when you release the gaz pedal. It brings the car to a full stop by using the engine (not the brakes) as a dynamo to generate electricity and refill your battery a bit 🙂 Once you use this in a Tesla model 3 (or others), cars without it become quite unpleasant to drive.

There was another issue with the Seal that I forgot... maybe about the recharge speed.... I'll write here if I can remember.

[Overload 97]

The model in the video is £48,700, about $61,500 USD, that's way more than I'll ever spend on a car.

[Lucky38i 1,234]

50 minutes ago, Daube said:

It's a nice car, but the problem with Chinese cars is that they often lack the "one pedal" driving mode.

The seal supports adjustable one-pedal driving. Actually a lot of the mid-range to high-range chinese BEVs have one-pedal driving.

 

51 minutes ago, Daube said:

maybe about the recharge speed

it supports 150kw DC fast charging which is pretty average. not the fastest but yeah decent.

 

31 minutes ago, Overload said:

The model in the video is £48,700, about $61,500 USD, that's way more than I'll ever spend on a car.

That's okay, just not for you, but some people like to live a little if they can afford it

[Lucky38i 1,234]

17 hours ago, martin-w said:

I like the way they refrain from "reinventing the wheel" changing things that work and have always worked

Sometimes you have a win, othertimes you don't but if we always thought like this we've still be using horse-drawn carriages.

 

17 hours ago, martin-w said:

Tesla's dodgy decisions like no stalks, indicator buttons on the steering wheel,

Honestly it's contentious but it's always from people who don't actually own the vehicle or tried it for a week or so. You get used to it in a few hours, even in the UK with its plethora of roundabouts. Like I said trying new stuff doesn't always mean it's going to work out great at first glance.

 

17 hours ago, martin-w said:

no display directly in front of the driver compromises the operation, in my opinion.

I don't agree as Mini for example, has been doing this since it's inception. As-well as various other brands and safety hasn't really been an issue. My dad owned an '08 cooper with everything in the middle, was quirky at first and you get used to it and I never felt unsafe driving it either.

[martin-w 3,315]

1 hour ago, Lucky38i said:

Sometimes you have a win, othertimes you don't but if we always thought like this we've still be using horse-drawn carriages.

 

I have no issue with innovation, but it has to be an innovation that's beneficial. Stalks for indicators work, work well, you don't even have to look, but by putting tiny indicators buttons on the steering wheel you render driving harder. In the UK there are plenty of islands to drive around, big ones, and indicating with the wheel turned is commonplace, which obviously makes hunting for the tiny indicator button problematic. Now it could be that eventually, one gets used to it, but there's no need to implement a less adequate system in the first place.  Manufacturers should predict if they "have a win" during the design and testing phase, not after the vehicle has been mass produced and sold to customers.

Same for lack of an upfront, between the wheel, instrument cluster with the speed displayed. Yes, I'm sure one might eventually adapt to having to divert ones gaze away from the road to a center console, but its not necessary when an upfront instrument cluster worked and worked well. Redesign of things that don't require redesign is nothing to do with innovation,  its a cost cutting exercise,. Same for putting heating controls in the menu somewhere on the screen rather than physical controls and the same for the weird notion Tesla had for making drive and reverse a swipe action on the screen... again, cost cutting exercise. I've driven two Tesla's, and I wasn't a fan of the speedometer being on the center console. Not driven a Tesla with tiny indicator buttons, but given the nature of driving in the British Isles and our road types, I can tell you for a fact I would not like it and I'd prefer indicator stalk's. I've noticed that car reviewers have said the same, that they don't like the buttons for indicators and no upfront panel. Some wondering why Tesla didn't incorporate a HUD.

1 hour ago, Lucky38i said:

Honestly it's contentious but it's always from people who don't actually own the vehicle or tried it for a week or so. You get used to it in a few hours, even in the UK with its plethora of roundabouts. Like I said trying new stuff doesn't always mean it's going to work out great at first glance.

 

No, its not always people who don't own the vehicle. And no, we shouldn't have to "get used" to it. If a solution is right, then its natural, instinctive, and doesn't require getting used to. What we are talking about is finding solutions for issues that didn't exist and the real motivation, in my opinion, is to cut costs. 

 

1 hour ago, Lucky38i said:

I don't agree as Mini for example, has been doing this since it's inception.

 

I learnt in a Mini in the 1980's. Speedometer was between the wheel. The 2008 Mini Cooper was slightly to the right of the wheel I recall and an analogue dial. Not a digital display in the corner of a screen further to the middle of the panel. But hey, I gave you my opinion that I don't like the way Tesla reinvent things that don't need reinvention... if you think differently then  you are entitled to. 

[n4gix 4,979]

I like the style, but honestly, I do not trust Chinese EVs at all. There has been a significant number of them that have spontaneously caught fire and burned to scrap over the past several years, including BYD offerings.

[martin-w 3,315]

10 hours ago, n4gix said:

I like the style, but honestly, I do not trust Chinese EVs at all. There has been a significant number of them that have spontaneously caught fire and burned to scrap over the past several years, including BYD offerings.

 

Hmm.....  not heard that, bill. Must have been old ones, as the BYD blade batteries are resistant to fire. 

Hybrids catch fire the most, followed by ICE, followed by a handful of BEV's... per capita. 

 

 

[G-RFRY 1,765]

German car manufactures no longer making EVs. Hybrid only in the future, slow take up of EVs and over supply not selling.

[martin-w 3,315]

6 hours ago, G-RFRY said:

German car manufactures no longer making EVs. Hybrid only in the future, slow take up of EVs and over supply not selling.

 

Not true. BMW are doing the exact opposite. The new BMW iX3 has the latest 6th gen batteries.

 

Quote

BMW to Produce only All-Electric Vehicles at Munich Plant from 2027

 

https://www.esgtoday.com/bmw-to-produce-only-all-electric-vehicles-at-munich-plant-from-2027/#:~:text=BMW Group announced today that,from the end of 2027.

 

 

Quote

 

"With our growing range of all-electric models, we are serving a rapidly increasing level of demand. 

As of 2025, the Group will take its core BMW brand into a new, consistently all-electric era with the NEUE KLASSE. By the early 2030s, the MINI and Rolls-Royce brands will have an exclusively all-electric product portfolio."

 

https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/innovation/drive-technologies/electromobility.html#:~:text=As of 2025%2C the Group,exclusively all-electric product portfolio.

 

Same for Audi...

Quote

The plan is to continuously expand the fleet of electric vehicles: from 2026 onward, Audi will only introduce fully electric models to the market. Audi thus intends to offer at least one electric vehicle in all core segments by 2027. The roadmap to electrification also includes the gradual phasing out of production of vehicles with combustion engines by 2033.

https://www.audi.com/en/sustainability/environment-resources/electrification.html#:~:text=Audi thus intends to offer,with combustion engines by 2033.

 

Mercedes have delayed their "all cars electric plans by 2027", but will still have BEV  models.

 

VW have 30 new models this year and believes all electric is the future.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-still-convinced-future-electric-094959575.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACBLVSVA9pfN0VpCvKibtPbV5dB6XLsXztMk5zihdgIan-Hx3M_EMxXPPlBA5zRmU16SeW__upgWa_TloUyJ-BYxWF0RI5NEKZNycFmFeR-QGi83d4F0UOrKWQIIwXAWrxqn0FKp0RYrZknZbWGvGExYG_BiSli1YTDfv0ZqvdE3

 

Porsche have the new electric Macan for 2024 and I've seen nothing about them not making EV's anymore. 

 

Quote

The launch of the new Macan is an important moment for Porsche. The two models that are initially available (as of February 2024) – the Macan 4 and Macan Turbo – mark the first-ever all-electric Porsche SUVs in a range that eventually will be exclusively fully electric.

 

 

Edited Friday at 08:16 PM by martin-w

[G-RFRY 1,765]

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

Not true. BMW are doing the exact opposite. The new BMW iX3 has the latest 6th gen batteries.

VW, Mercedes, have are now making Hybrid Toyota also. Ford US have halted production of EVs. 

[Fielder 3,907]

But what would James May say? (A good question to always ask yourself).