dtrjones

38 minutes ago, Mucker said:

Me too and the autogen looks nice but I noticed the tall city buildings looked dark, they should be brightly lit.

I'm not sure you'll get lights from photogrammetry objects. What you are seeing is spot lights lighting the external texture surfaces which can be done anywhere. Unless they created a model from scratch then all the photogrammetry buildings will be dark (apart from the impact of external light sources). I think this is where we need to understand the limitations of the tech.

11 minutes ago, Mucker said:

It seems to me that this tech would likely need more RAM given they have talked about cache being important int he streaming process.

Don't you think the fact they are streaming means you'll need less RAM? If data's cached it's still streamed in (and then out the further you are away) either from the hard disk (cached) or from the internet (azure cloud). Of course the bigger picture is it's a tech alpha and what that means as far as RAM goes it's a blank cheque I.e. you could put any number on it, but I suspect the more GB's the better 😁 I would say at the stage people who have less than 16 GB are probably at a disadvantage for this initial release but lets wait and see.

On 10/12/2019 at 8:49 AM, domkle said:

From the start, we have all assumed that 4k was the only way to go for FS20. I’ve not made my mind though.

So do we need 4k or is it marketing hype ?

Odd question. I agree 1440p provides a terriffic flight experience on my 30" monitor, but rather than ask yourself is 4K necessary for YOU, you should ask; Can Microsoft afford to release the game without 4K support because that would be marketing destruction. Your car can probably break the speed limit on the road right but you don't need to go that fast, but how many poeple would buy that car if it could ONLY reach the speed limit and no more...

On 10/19/2019 at 8:30 PM, Raymond.Groenendijk said:

Well it can get pretty dark with just one layer of cumulonimbus clouds already in reality (and this can also be seen in some of the material we've seen from the sim). They can at least render two layers, so if you add another high altitude layer on top of that it should become pretty dark. Now if they can also render eclipses correctly (probably not and also not that important anyway) you can get some really spooky situations. 

The cumulonimbus in FSW was amazing given the texture sprites we had before in flight simulators. I think FS2020 will be even better as the dark cloud shadows and cloud base will make everything feel threatening and we already know the turbulance and rain in those areas are a possibility as well. It's all looking very promising. Next video will be on Weather so we'll no doubt have more information then.

29 minutes ago, sightseer said:

+1 on lighthouses.  I'm also hopeful for realistic water towers (eventually by somebody).

i'd be very surprised if the night lighting wasn't as great an improvement over FSX as the rest of the scenery generation appears to be.  Why go to the trouble of using shader code to ...actually nevermind...they already said they were adding lights on buildings.  Im sure it will be good.  if not, we complain and they fix it. or somebody does.  did you know the .fx files were a form of shader code?  I didnt until some recent reading.

I don't know how good the lighting will be but the folks at the preview event were pretty complementary about the lighting. I believe all the scenery materials are PBR which helps but also the clouds and water bodies reflect lighting from the gound and aircraft as well. I'm sure this is something still very much in development which is why we've not seen a great deal of it yet.

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 7:22 PM, Dillon said:

Getting a little worried with a few items that haven't been focused on yet with only a few months until release (a short time in terms of major features to the sim being complete considering the five year development cycle). 

In some ways you've hit the nail on the head with the missing features many which were core to FSX but in many ways you've completely missed the focal point of the development or maybe you didn't miss it and it's the reason you are concerned and rightly so. They are clealy focusing on the 4 areas of the sim outlined in the DR, World, Weather Aerodynamics and Cockpits. Which to me is 100% correct as this builds the core foundation and many of these play off each other to give a simming experience far greater than previously possible.

Ok so the bad news, the fear is and as you rightly say AI, seasons, ATC and VR etc we've not had much information, well we have. We know seasons and at the moment VR will not be in the initial release. ATC and AI might be limited versions of previous incarnations until they build the feature set out. We know helicopters are not going to be included. You have to face the facts to improve things, you have to tear them down first and rebuild. It's what Dovetail faced and what Microsoft are now facing, there's no point whinning about it and throwing your toys out of the pram, this experience can complement exsiting titles until it matures otherwise you miss out on what it DOES have to offer and you'll be more the poorer for it.

Finally the development process isn't going to follow previous versions for Flight Simulator with releases replacing releases. That much is clear. The simulator will be iterated on and patched with new features much like X-Plane 11 point releases but there'll not be another new version of Flight Similator, this is it and it will improve over time with new and updated features.

On 10/13/2019 at 8:56 PM, cepact said:

If PMDG is already in contact with Microsoft/Asobo and have early access to the SDK/Tech Alpha and have access to the team for tech support , then there is no reason why we wouldn't have at least one of the PMDG aircrafts available on release day

think of it, they have everything, the game, the SDK, and I imagine they can call or visit the team whenever they want to get information

I'm expecting you'll be disappointed! 😛

On 10/14/2019 at 1:35 AM, Rob_Ainscough said:

Oh my, trying to determine if I've entered the Twilight Zone or reached the Outer Limits 🙂 

So you think the new sim started with Microsoft coding SDK to support third party aircraft before they even had a working core product?  How's that work?

I love to see the enthusiasm, but wow, some of the thread topics being started lately ... don't worry, I'm sure PMDG, FSLabs, etc. will eventually have a product for MSFS ... patience is a virtue.

Cheers, Rob.

I read somewhere that they had been in development for 3 years already and will be delivering an early version of the SDK with the tech alpha. I suspect though that the SDK will be very limited to what they have 'nailed down' as you said much of the core sim experience is still being fleshed out so I think there's very little chance of a PDMG heavy jet being released on launch of FS2020 but I'm hopeful of some smaller plane and scenery releases shortly after launch.

3 hours ago, andyjohnston.net said:

The fact that all the confirmed aircraft are GA.

Microsoft have stated repeatedly that big and small jets will be in the sim, and a turboprop and 320 was shown in the trailer. Relax!

On 10/12/2019 at 1:56 AM, F737NG said:

Didn't stop Majestic designing and developing a realistic Dash-8 Q400 for P3D which is renown for its poor replication of turboprop simulation.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

...but the beechcraft king air is a turboprop and that comes with FSX as standard 🙂 A rotary aircraft has fundamentally different flight characteristics which may or may not be possible from the SDK. I guess we now know the SDK will be coming with the Tech Alpha release so 3PD if they can get there hands on a copy of the sim wouldn't have long to find out. 🤞

On 10/12/2019 at 1:58 PM, Torg Smith said:

I have no doubts my former 70Mb was enough to stream the data. What I was wondering was if the 400 was enough for the max capabilities of their streaming setup. I did not see the 4Mb comment, so was unaware of it. Did they say the high detail was the max, or if it was just enough to use that setting?

Thanks, no problem Torg! The comment regarding the streaming is around the 30 minute mark. The developer says he has a 4 Megabit DSL connection and is able to stream the highest details. Take from that what you want but I think anybody with a reasonable broadband connection (I.e.10Mb/s) should be fine, but I couldn't say a jet for example wouldn't cause some issues at entry level broadband speeds. As ever we'll have to wait until this gets into more hands to find out for sure.

https://www.flightsim.com/images/features/msfdev/FlightSim.com-Microsoft_Flight_Simulator_Interview_AUDIO.m4a

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

Well, that's how it had to be done in FSX. Ideally, we'd want all the essential rotary-specific elements thought out and included in the base flight model, like XP and (I think?) DCS.

That way, 3rd party designers can focus on the 3D airframe modeling and any plugins needed for special systems like autopilot, searchlingt, sling loads, etc. You get more 3rd party helicopters released that way, because not everyone is an expert at rotary wing flight dynamics. It really should be included in the base sim flight model options.

3PD can't develop something which hasn't appeared in the game first. I say that because how could they guarentee that the SDK works. 3PD will not be able to create rotary specific aircraft using the launch title unless they have developed such an aircraft behind the scenes first with one of there development partners which has built out the SDK.

9 hours ago, Phil00r said:

Isn't the Feature discovery series supposed to be insider content? It is posted on Youtube. I thought there's an NDA.

The videos are not protected. If you know the URL you can pass them around to your friends and they can access just fine.

7 hours ago, Torg Smith said:

I did not see a way to update my internet bandwidth on my profile. I just upgraded from 70Mb to 400Mb. I wonder if that is enough to get the best quality.

I don't want to be mean but that just sounds like you are bragging about a 400Mb connection. Are you seriously having doubts that will be enough?

If you listen to the FligthtSim.com interview (wow can I say that on here 😛?) then one of the devs says he plays at home on a 4Mb connection and can stream in high detail.

6 hours ago, ca_metal said:

As far as I know, for the trees/autogen Orbx relies on data for the placement. And the trees/autogen are not the same type and shape shown on the imagery. The Azure A.I. is in fact "looking" the imagery to place trees/buildings/objects. Orbx doesn't do that, they have the data for the buildings and trees and their own software do the all work. 

I would say the Microsoft approach is more accurate in the end. The big advantage on the Orbx' side is having a lot of custom objects/buildings/POIs that are handmade and handplaced on the scenery.

There are millions of trees in the Orbx True Earth scenarios. If they do not use the satellite imagery, then it would take somebody years to place all the trees. Also 1000's of buildings very clearly follow the footprint of the floorplan shown on the satellite image, again clearly evidence which suggests Orbx have the capability with reasonable source imagery to create autogen from satellite images. This may not be as as advanced as Azure AI but it's there and it has enabled Orbx to create the True Earth landscapes.

3 hours ago, turnandbank said:

This looks so ready already!

Ever since I started working with Ortho4XP with custom generated W2XP overlays, I thought it would be neat if the ortho images could be scanned with an algorithm trained to recognize trees and different types of buildings and then create the data to reproduce them accurately in the sim. This would do away with the need for inconsistent data available from OSM and other sources. I also thought it would be neat if the clouds and color matching could be handled by an AI program. This is exactly what they have accomplished and the result is stunning. This could not have been pulled off by a smaller developer, due to the computing power needed, so it is great to see MS back in the game.

Even the full offline mode is a huge leap forward from default X-plane scenery, at least in the Seattle area shown in the video.

Orbx do pretty much what is seen for the aerial images, I.e. they colour match satellite imagery, create buildings and trees of the same type and shape shown on satellite imagery, mask coastlines and water bodies, hand place 100's of custom buildings and lighting - all done over vast areas. Although some of this must be automated, I suspect the process must be very time consuming especially the custom buildings but they really sell the locations for me.

A lot of earlier versions of Microsoft Flight Simulator had more landmarks and distinct recognizable location than the current X-Plane 11. X-Plane really has rudimentary details in many famous locations around the world.

5 minutes ago, PWJT8D said:

Our current simulators all have a pretty sad way of showing us the terrain, autogen buildings/cities and everything else. We never really could actually explore the world. Only a poorly auto-generated texture repeating low level of detail blurries everywhere bland experience.

With this we will... actually ...be able to explore the world. Let that sink in.

This is what I love about Orbx True Earth. Having the lovingly created 3D cities along with the photographic terrain, it's wonderful for exploration. I'm still explorering the amazing UK coastlines months after the first True Earth package was delivered to X-Plane.

4 hours ago, rjfry said:

The looks good in full screen.

One thing struck me offline mode if you have no internet connection how do you get it without an internet connection.

And what if we don't have money for petrol to drive to the shops.

I'm sure there'll be a distribution model which will support physical disks. I'm not really sure what you are getting at here. How will FS2020 differ from FSX in that regard?

I think it'll become obvious that a lot of areas outside the USA will need work to get them looking like there true life counterparts, 3PD can help with this, although Europe Bing 3D city coverage does seem decent.

This illusion of they don't model anything from the FSElite interviews is stretching the truth somewhat! I think Paris and Dubia have had a lot of 'work' but London looks a little rough although it was quoted by Squirrel I think that he saw 'some' landmarks like the London eye which would have been created by hand a lot was missing and a lot was autogen, the arial images were also blurry compared to the crisp textures shown around the USA.

None of this should come as a suprise, to get good looking scenery is probably quite easy, but to make it reflective of real life surroundings takes a lot of time, just ask Orbx.

16 hours ago, georgiosgiannoukos said:

Hi, a question please, with Download speed of 10.4 Mbps and Upload speed of 2.0 Mbps that would be ok for live streaming for the New FS2020?
Thank you

Geo

I feel like you may struggle with that bandwidth if you are in a dense city filled with photogrammetry buildings but you do have other options.

Basically as Lionel Fuentes lead programmer at Asobo Studio described it the streaming will consist of Bing 3D cities (photogrammetry scans of cities of which there are around 400), aerial imagery and elevation data (mesh). There will be three modes of play for creating the world.

• Live - where data is constantly streamed over the internet for photogrammetry, aerial imagery and elevation data.
• Cached - The Live data will instead be sourced from a harddisk if available improving performance otherwise will be streamed as required.
• Offline - Landclass imagery tiles included in the base product will be used along with vector data for roads and rivers etc much like we have now for FSX.

I say Offline would be like we have now, but thats only regarding the data used. The rendering will be nothing like FSX as I understand the imagery (offline tiles and aerial) will support procedural generation of autogen objects which includes colouring of trees, buildings and grass to match the terrain.

So for video streaming then cached mode would be the way to go, just ensure you've flown that route before the stream and if you have enough allocation in your cache then you should have very few bandwidth issues but of course I don't actually know, I'm just using an educated guess based on the information I have.

The video below is from an ex ACES developer where he discusses the demands of streaming performance on today's PC's and how you could possibly get an early indication of how the streaming might perform.

1 minute ago, Superdelphinus said:

Why would LM bother trying to recreate what Microsoft is doing, in partnership with amazon? Surely they would just seek to licence the underlying technology again like with ESP. 

That would be like Cloud Imperium Games developers of Star Citizen going back to Crytek and asking for a free update... 💣😄

10 hours ago, ErichB said:

XP users will not be sticking with XP.  Now that the flight modeling has been confirmed as being on par with the XP (which for the most part was the major differentiator) the playing field has shifted - significantly 

Well right now I would like to tell you that I have Orbx TrueEarth installed for the whole of the UK in X-Plane where I live and I love flying around that region with my Piper PA-38. The custom objects make a difference against the backdrop of satalite imagery and AI created autogen much like FS2020. I'm a casual simmer though and I don't have that many addon's for scenery or planes.

Bottom line for me is, I still get a lot of enjoyment out of X-Plane and I see no reason to remove this sim from my harddisk, so I imagine somebody more heavily invested in X-Plane would almost certainly persist with the planes and scenery they enjoy, it's still a great sim...

However I can't really be accountable once FS2020 drops, and well... I'd sure like to have that diskspace back...

On 9/29/2019 at 7:22 PM, Noooch said:

At 1:30 we can  clearly see a cloud on the mountain on the ortho tile, I hope they will fix that before they release the final product.

Also the water looks too flat to me, hope they will correct this as well...

 

I had to look at this twice to realise it wasn't MSFS2020!

3 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

@mpo910 So you'd like a preview of the SDK? Like the one coming in the Tech Alpha?

If you are going to make comments like this, can you please back them up with a source reference or link.

While It is possible the tech alpha could expose an SDK, I think it would be madness from Microsoft to do so without all the features in place. It's a green light for devs to start coding which could be a disaster. In my view the SDK should be released when and only when it's stable to do so and a tech alpha is not that time.

2 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

But everyone keeps forgetting to post the rest of the sentence: "though they caution that it is something that will be polished and expanded through post-launch updates."

I interpreted polished and expanded as updates to the existing SDK (provided an launch) but the use of the word 'caution' could imply a delay if it's not ready I guess.